Opinions: task repetition

[Fasafan]

I winged something last weekend and wanted your opinions.

A fighter was trying to bash a door in that was locked. He rolled the 1d10 and failed. Instead of letting him try again and again and again, I told him that this particular door was just too sturdy for him. He'd have to find another way to get through that particular door.

What say ye?

I remember going through U1 Sinster Secret of Saltmarsh circa 1989 as a thief. I tried to pick a lock, failed, and was told I couldn't try again until next level: the lock was just too difficult for me at that time. The 14 year old me thought that was crazy, but the adult me understands that on many levels.

I'm not familiar with AD&D, so I don't know if that is actually a rule.

What do you think? The two scenarios (beating a door down/picking a lock) aren't exactly the same, but...?

Truth be told, in the first example I was prepared to say that anyone with a strength less than the fighter that failed automatically would, too. That would have cut down on everyone lining up for their turn, and laughing hysterically when the mage inevitably busted it down!

Lee

[Dimirag]

The Thieve's one attempt only until next level thing is a core rule on AD&D as it is also on BFRPG

I've played with different variations of those rules or known people that use variations. Some let thieves one attempt per level gained, others use a cumulative penalty or increased time used on the task.

The Thief case is a matter of knowledge and skill, as it increased with level it represents new understanding earned.
Bashing a door is just a matter of brute force, no level is involved, you can keep trying but you'll make lots of noise while at it. Cutting it to one attempt only will make things a little harder but not game-breaking, chopping down the door is still possible... I personally wouldn't use it, specially the level-related thing, but if you fill it will make your games more fun, or dangerous, or just what you wanted, go ahead.

[Metroknight]

I have let players make multiple attempts with their characters for breaking doors down but with each attempt it takes time and causes a random encounter check for the noise. I usually give them their str (or con) bonus in attempts before taking subdue damage which represents them bruising themselves up in the attempt. In addition I have increased the chance the door being broken open by 1 on each attempt also. Standard chance is 2 or less (without str bonus) so the second attempt would be 3, third attempt would be 4, etc. By the 5th attempt the door would finally break open but they would have taken some subdue damage along with extra encounter rolls which could spell trouble to the group in whole.

[chiisu81]

Sure, the fighter can keep trying to bash down the door if he or she wishes. But the noise will attract every single monster within earshot

[Solomoriah]

At my table, door-bashing is generally limited to two tries per character. After that they get out the axes and start chopping.

Starting with the second door bash, I roll encounter checks on 1 on 1d6 for each attempt.

[Hywaywolf]

bashing down a door and picking a lock aren't equivalent actions when it comes to testing your ability. Bashing a door takes a single movement/action attempt in 1 round - 10 seconds. Picking a lock takes 1 turn - 10 minutes. A lockpick attempt has the thief attempting the task with every tool in his kit, with multiple attempts to get the right position of the picks and enough time to try everything in your skill set to open the lock. If you fail its because the lock is just to tough for your particular skill level. Another thief of the same level with a different touch or trained on a similar lock (ingame rationalizations for hard rules) might be able to open it, but until you have gained sufficient new training you will not be able to.

A bashing down a door attempt doesn't take into account the weakening of the hinges. locks or wood panels. It doesn't take into account backing up, seeing where you have damaged it and trying again. So it makes sense to me that repeated attacks against a door will eventually weaken it enough to succeed if given enough time. Which has been stated here might not be unmolested time.

[Clever_Munkey]

Echoing many of the other statements:

For general task resolution, I decide if the task is possible, then whether there are consequences for failure. If it is possible, and there are no consequences then they simply succeed. I might say it takes multiple attempts, or just one, but either way I just move on with the next part and don't waste time rolling. If there are consequences then I roll. Consequences could be wandering monsters, damage, no retries, etc.

What determines whether something can be retried? If failure changes the situation in such a way that it is no longer possible. If you break the equipment you are using, are spotted hiding, etc. then you are out of luck; try something else. Breaking down a door can probably be retried. I really like Metroknight's ruling on this actually.

I've always felt weird about locks. I pick locks as a hobby, and a new lock can take anywhere between a few minutes to not in your lifetime, depending on the quality of the lock, and the tools at the lock picker's disposal. For example the Bramah lock went a whopping 67 years before Alfred Charles Hobbs was able to pick it, and it took him 51 hours over 16 days.

To reflect this, I treat picking locks similar to magical research. After the thief fails their first attempt, If they can take the lock with them (a locked chest for example), then they can spend time and money trying out new techniques, making new tools, etc. and they can have a retry. If they can't take the lock with them I usually require that they level up before trying again. They simply don't have the tools, or knowledge of how the lock works.

[Metroknight]

Echoing many of the other statements:

Breaking down a door can probably be retried. I really like Metroknight's ruling on this actually.

Thank you. Most of my players like the choice of making the attempts till the door gives and risking the consequences or not making the extra attempts. It all depends on the GM's view of how his game world works and there is no wrong way of running the game as long as it is fair and everyone is having fun.

[Hywaywolf]

Fezzik, I need you!

http://i.imgur.com/ZZu6Lag.gifv

[Dimirag]

My only minor quibble is how negative modifiers don't affect the chances of opening a door, even the STR3 character can open one with time and luck...

Time ago I made a table considering that

Other way is to use the STR penalty to reduce the allowed number of attempts (if the GM chooses to use a set max value), something like 4+STR allowed attempts.

For those GMs not wanting to limit this one can use the penalty as extra successes needed.