Mystics

Creating game materials? Monsters, spells, classes, adventures? This is the place!
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Blorpy
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Mystics

Post by Blorpy »

Just cooked up this class for my group and thought I'd share.

Edit: Class is now in Showcase:

https://basicfantasy.org/showcase.cgi?sid=204
Last edited by Blorpy on Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:10 pm, edited 20 times in total.
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PerformanceChecks
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Re: Spellswords

Post by PerformanceChecks »

I absolutely love this, though there appears to be a blank page at the end?
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Blorpy
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Re: Spellswords

Post by Blorpy »

Whoopsy daisy. Well then, looks like the R4 update is a backspace :lol:

Glad you like it! I think a lot of the mainline MU spells would work well with this concept, but some of the few I might need to create are the following:

- command word
- kinetic strike that pushes back and disarms enemies
- imbuing a weapon with lightning
- telepathy/mind control
- imbuing mundane objects with fire/grenade power
- a magic barrier
- shock wave
- a fireworks stun attack
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Dimirag
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Re: Spellswords

Post by Dimirag »

The class is interesting, a less powerful MU-Fighter Combo. Against the combo the class grows faster, giving more HP and saving throws, but, fights worst than the combo (just a tad better against a MU), and as a MU is severely limited on spellcasting.

The extra spells rule needs clarification, can the class simply "overcast" any spell from his or her spellbook? (Something that breaks the "preparation" system).
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
Drawing portfolio: https://www.instagram.com/m.serena_dimirag/
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Blorpy
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Re: Spellswords

Post by Blorpy »

Dimirag wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:33 pm The extra spells rule needs clarification, can the class simply "overcast" any spell from him or her spellbook? (Something that breaks the "preparation" system).
Correct. The “overcast” system would indeed break the preparation system. Makes me wonder if spontaneous casting ought to just be baked right into the class, with the corresponding nerf being that they have fewer spells available to them overall.
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Blorpy
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Re: Spellswords

Post by Blorpy »

Dimirag wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:33 pm The extra spells rule needs clarification, can the class simply "overcast" any spell from his or her spellbook? (Something that breaks the "preparation" system).
I gave your question some more thought and have uploaded a more "meat-and-potatoes" update with spell lists, a few new spells (keeping with the Gandalf theme), and clarifications on how spells are prepared.

The conclusion I've come to is not to do away with spell preparation as I previously suggested I might do. Instead, Spellswords use a system I would describe as a “spell pool”. They may prepare the same number of spells as their level, creating a pool of spells from which to draw on, but may only cast as many of those as they have appropriate spell slots for (unless “overcasting”). This provides a bit of flexibility, but not gratuitously so. For example, a level 20 Spellsword may prepare a 20 spell pool from which to choose from, and would have 14 spell slots of various levels with which to cast from those 20 options. When they “overcast”, they would be drawing on that same pool of prepared spells. I believe this is a fairly reasonable compromise overall.
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TrickyNikki
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Re: Spellswords

Post by TrickyNikki »

Hey there Blorpy,

Really awesome class! Has a lot of potential. Would you mind if I thought of some more spells for it?

I also have a suggestion for balance. After crunching some numbers and thinking about it, 1d4 seems quite low for the damage taken from the spell. Think of the amount of change to combat a 3rd level spell could bring, for example fireball. 3d4+1 to pay for the damage output you will get is quite an easy price to pay, especially at a higher level. My friend and I (Matthew, who has helped me in numerous supplements I created for the game), are thinking that upping the damage to 1d6 or 1d8 would be better. Perhaps make the cumulative +1 damage, into +2. Look at the current numbers (provided that we just take averages):

9th level Spellsword HP Pool: 27 HP
Cost of the third level spell slot: 6-7 HP
Output of a Fireball: 27 HP to all within a 20’ radius, which could potentially be a few people, but let’s just say three. That’s 81 HP.

The balance is somewhat restored if you either make it a 3d6+2 (so average 9-11 HP) or 3d8+2 (Average 12-14 HP). Still not proportional, but definitely a bit more on the same level.

Anyway, that would be our proposition :)
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Blorpy
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Re: Spellswords

Post by Blorpy »

Hi Nikki,

Thank you for your input! I absolutely welcome collaboration on this. Whatever you think would make a great spell for this class I’d like to hear!

I agree that the "push-your-luck casting" dice should be increased. I'm open to 1d6 or 1d8. But I would like to first segue into the discussion of fireballs in relation to this class, since those may be part of the unbalancing factor here.

To be honest, I almost did not include fireball in the list as they are perhaps overpowered already. The alternative is maybe to raise the spell level to 4th for Spellsword use.

(Edited for clarity)
Last edited by Blorpy on Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Dimirag
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Re: Spellswords

Post by Dimirag »

Changing the spell slot progression and/or the spell level will change when the class may acquire a spell, if you want to change the spell potency you can give the class a separate "caster level" maybe one equal to the spell slot progression or even smaller.
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
Drawing portfolio: https://www.instagram.com/m.serena_dimirag/
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Blorpy
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Re: Spellswords

Post by Blorpy »

Dimirag wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:42 pm Changing the spell slot progression and/or the spell level will change when the class may acquire a spell, if you want to change the spell potency you can give the class a separate "caster level" maybe one equal to the spell slot progression or even smaller.
I agree that giving Spellswords an effective caster level of 10 *might* be necessary as this is basically a level 10 fighter/level 10 mage. It is better to err on the side of underpowering a new class. Alternatively, we could retool the mage spells for balance and leave the Druid/cleric spells as is, given that the Spellsword has a grab bag of each.

Although this class is ostensibly a variation of fighter/mage, it might be more illuminating to compare it to the Cleric/Druid. The Spellsword has the same hit dice and utilizes many of the same spells, so the divine casters make for a natural comparison. A good place to start would be to list the advantages each has over the other at level 20.

Cleric/Druid advantages:
- access to 26 spell slots versus the Spellsword’s 14.
- Access to level 6 spells
- Spells are not inhibited by armour
- Slightly better attack bonus.
- Can pray for any of the spells they want.
- Require only 66% of the Spellsword’s XP
- Turn Undead/Animal Affinity

Spellsword advantages:
- More variety of spells
- More versatility with spell pooling and overcasting
- 5 more hp
- More weapon proficiencies (though somewhat negligible as they’re both using d8 weapons—SS could use a bow while wearing armour but then couldn’t really cast spells)
- MU spells often have higher damage output at lower cost. Blade barrier vs fireball could be compared as they both deal 1d6 per level, despite one being 6th level and the other 3rd. Not a perfect comparison since BB has more utility, but worth noting.
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