New Races: A Basic Fantasy Supplement

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AlMan
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Re: New Races: A Basic Fantasy Supplement

Post by AlMan »

I'm thinking this may have to be redone to include playable monsters from Basic Fantasy Field Guide Volumes 2 and 3.

At some point would this and the Monsters as Player Characters supplements be combined since that has mostly Core Rules monsters?
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SmootRK
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Re: New Races: A Basic Fantasy Supplement

Post by SmootRK »

As to somehow combining the Monsters as Playable Races & New Races supplement. There were different goals here.

Monsters as Characters was meant to make various monsters into playable character options, usually for some special circumstance or special campaigns. I can see this Supplement getting expanded with various options found in the field guides to continue making the various humanoids usable as well.

New Races was a little different. Here, the idea was to create playable races for the game (and initially from my own little home game). The monster-style entries came well after the development of the race itself... much like one finds Dwarves, Elves, and Halflings in the monster books of certain game/editions, but one thinks of them as Player Character Races first and foremost. They were purposely designed to mesh well with the Core Races like humans, elves, etc.

So along with that built-in congruence with the core races, the New Races (Phaerim, Caineins, Fauns, etc) seem to have found some traction with the public if one reads various comments and such on Facebook and elsewhere. I think that level of public use makes them quite viable as Supplemental Races in nearly the same manner as Gnomes, Half-Orcs, Half-Elves, etc. especially if one considers that these are original to BFRPG circles and that having our own special 'stuff' adds greatly to the BFRPG brand than only having retcons and copies emulated from other games/editions.

Monsters as Characters on the other hand, still remain largely very niche. Not so many GM's are running campaigns where players are Hobgoblins, true Orcs, or other such races. For the most part these races are more likely only to find use in very special purpose situations or as NPCs or other near-character additions like a retainer, follower, etc. For instance, maybe a MU character gets a special goblin apprentice, or a Thieves' Guild attracts a couple Kobold members etc. I see a lot of value having these races fleshed out a bit for these sort of situations, but I realize that value is limited to these sorts of special instances rather than as pure player options.

So, all this said, additions to the New Races Supplement should be very well thought out options... truly Race Compatible options with the traditional core races. I am not against additions, but again these additions should be well considered options.

That make sense? or am I rambling a bit?
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Solomoriah
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Re: New Races: A Basic Fantasy Supplement

Post by Solomoriah »

I think you're right on target.
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SmootRK
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Re: New Races: A Basic Fantasy Supplement

Post by SmootRK »

Solomoriah wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:36 pm I think you're right on target.
Thanks. I certainly don't want to stifle any creative energy. I just want to make sure it is understood why the separation was maintained by me so far.

I especially think the FG1 viable races (aside from the ones in New Races Supplement) really ought to be folded into the Monsters as Player Characters Supplement since the FG1 is basically one of the 'official' offerings. Maybe with a name change, so it seems a tad less "for players" and more of a tool for adding classes to many alternate races.
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daryen
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Re: New Races: A Basic Fantasy Supplement

Post by daryen »

I think the Monsters as Player Characters should contain a section that states the rules used in the various entries by itself so that any monster can be played and given class levels.

In other words, something along the lines of:

"Any creature with a single HD have it replaced with the hit dice from the class levels (even if worse). If a creature has more than on HD, then they must progress through their 'monster levels' first, before getting to their class levels. In these cases, their first class level will replace their final 'monster hit die'. (So a monster with 3 HD will have to progress through 2 monster levels and the third character level is the first class level.)" Then give the experience point chart to progress through "monster levels".

For bonus points, give two experience point charts: one for more "normal" monsters, and one for "magical" monsters. That way it takes longer for the "magical" monsters.

This is what is done for the current entries. The idea is to just "generic-ize" it for broader usage and allow for more than three monster levels if needed. Plus, I don't know why they have to be humaniod. I mean if someone wants to play a mimic or rust monster, why not ... ?
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SmootRK
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Re: New Races: A Basic Fantasy Supplement

Post by SmootRK »

daryen wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:16 pm I think the Monsters as Player Characters should contain a section that states the rules used in the various entries by itself so that any monster can be played and given class levels.

In other words, something along the lines of:

"Any creature with a single HD have it replaced with the hit dice from the class levels (even if worse). If a creature has more than on HD, then they must progress through their 'monster levels' first, before getting to their class levels. In these cases, their first class level will replace their final 'monster hit die'. (So a monster with 3 HD will have to progress through 2 monster levels and the third character level is the first class level.)" Then give the experience point chart to progress through "monster levels".

For bonus points, give two experience point charts: one for more "normal" monsters, and one for "magical" monsters. That way it takes longer for the "magical" monsters.

This is what is done for the current entries. The idea is to just "generic-ize" it for broader usage and allow for more than three monster levels if needed. Plus, I don't know why they have to be humaniod. I mean if someone wants to play a mimic or rust monster, why not ... ?
The process was not necessarily so formulaic. Each of those extra HD "extra levels" was a bit of an art, deciding at which such level to give certain pieces of their monster stats. ie. when they get a bonus to save, when to get one or more attack routines added, or who knows what else might appear in some of the new Field Guide creations. There is included thinking about how to spread these extra bits across so no one "level" was substantially better than the others (and certainly debatable as to whether I was successful or not in those decisions for each entry). There is a reason the process of adding monsters with classes stopped before such things as Giants. Egads all those negative levels for those HD!!

Not really sure all the various bits can be so codified as to make this easily applicable to all humanoids (or other such monsters as you mention). Also, I rather dislike the general idea of codifying all things... I like having leeway to adapt and improvise. So, my preference is for each to get personal attention and individual adaptation to this process.

Even as I say this about being formulaic/codified, one can easily spot how the writing was absolutely formulaic in the style. The exact same bits of info appear in specific order and with that little summation bit at the end... yes, this writing structure is very specific. I just don't see the point in trying to boil the mechanics down to specific rules or special process otherwise.
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daryen
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Re: New Races: A Basic Fantasy Supplement

Post by daryen »

How about at least giving some guidelines? It doesn't have to be perfectly formulaic, but could at least say how to structure it so that Game Masters can go off in their corner and give it a whirl if they want to. Maybe make it an appendix in the document?
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SmootRK
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Re: New Races: A Basic Fantasy Supplement

Post by SmootRK »

Yes, that is a reasonable request.
I will try to delve back into this and recollect my thoughts on it. Bear in mind this project dates back a bit.
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Solomoriah
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Re: New Races: A Basic Fantasy Supplement

Post by Solomoriah »

Announcing!

New Races: A Basic Fantasy Supplement Italian Translation, Release 2-it1 -- May 08, 2021
Thanks to the Italian translation team for this new translation of this supplement!

https://basicfantasy.org/downloads.html#newraces
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chiisu81
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Re: New Races: A Basic Fantasy Supplement

Post by chiisu81 »

Proposed r3 attached
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