New class: Umbra Ward (Shadow Ranger)
- BillTheButcher
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:53 pm
- Location: Quincy, Il.
New class: Umbra Ward (Shadow Ranger)
Hey Everyone,
This is my first time posting i think, but have been lurking about for a long while.
I've been working on a small BFRPG fanzine and other OSR stuff with my start up company Machination Game Designs. In the first issue i have a Ranger/Assassin hybrid called a Umbra Ward (Shadow Ranger). I'd love some feedback and thoughts. If everyone enjoys the design i'd love to submit it, Thanks in Advance.
This is my first time posting i think, but have been lurking about for a long while.
I've been working on a small BFRPG fanzine and other OSR stuff with my start up company Machination Game Designs. In the first issue i have a Ranger/Assassin hybrid called a Umbra Ward (Shadow Ranger). I'd love some feedback and thoughts. If everyone enjoys the design i'd love to submit it, Thanks in Advance.
- Attachments
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- Umbra Wards .pdf
- (61.03 KiB) Downloaded 282 times
Bill Sterns (Creative Design, Machination Game Designs)
- RecklessRoleplayer
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:15 am
- Location: Wellington, New Zealand
- Contact:
Re: feedback on a new class
Hey Bill, welcome to the forums!
I like this class as a concept but atm it has quite a few things I think should be looked into.
First in foremost, what class does it attack as? My guess would be Fighter given the Saves you've attached but that's good to clarify.
Secondly would be the EXP points to level up, atm it's far too high. I know it's the Ranger numbers but given the lower hit die and the lack of chosen enemy + not having the amazing bow bonus of Ranger I would definitely match it with the base Fighter EXP or less.
Thirdly and my main thing is locking off Poisons until third level, and restricting dipping the weapons till 5th. Given that this is stated to be for Basic Fantasy this really sticks out like a sore thumb as being really weird.
Never once is this poison restriction given to the assassin, rather it's attached to a skill percentage which is much more consistent with other classes. As this reads now it's just you always fail, then as of 3rd level you can and will always success, which is potentially game breaking given the typical poison premade is meant to cost roughly 500gp.
The restriction to dip poison imo goes against the nature of OSR games, and I would consider this to be the standard way of how an assassin would use their poisons, or just about anyone for that matter. Restricting someone from doing a basic interaction because they aren't high enough level feels like a very modern dnd idea and definitely clashes here.
Fix those up and I think you definitely have something here
I like this class as a concept but atm it has quite a few things I think should be looked into.
First in foremost, what class does it attack as? My guess would be Fighter given the Saves you've attached but that's good to clarify.
Secondly would be the EXP points to level up, atm it's far too high. I know it's the Ranger numbers but given the lower hit die and the lack of chosen enemy + not having the amazing bow bonus of Ranger I would definitely match it with the base Fighter EXP or less.
Thirdly and my main thing is locking off Poisons until third level, and restricting dipping the weapons till 5th. Given that this is stated to be for Basic Fantasy this really sticks out like a sore thumb as being really weird.
Never once is this poison restriction given to the assassin, rather it's attached to a skill percentage which is much more consistent with other classes. As this reads now it's just you always fail, then as of 3rd level you can and will always success, which is potentially game breaking given the typical poison premade is meant to cost roughly 500gp.
The restriction to dip poison imo goes against the nature of OSR games, and I would consider this to be the standard way of how an assassin would use their poisons, or just about anyone for that matter. Restricting someone from doing a basic interaction because they aren't high enough level feels like a very modern dnd idea and definitely clashes here.
Fix those up and I think you definitely have something here
- BillTheButcher
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:53 pm
- Location: Quincy, Il.
Re: feedback on a new class
Thanks for the honest feedback, i went back and forth with myself about using the fighters exp chart vs the rangers. i even entertained the thief's, thats why i settled on d6 for hit dice to kind of find a middle ground. i replaced bowman ability with knife throwing and really wanted to create something diffrent with poisons that would set it apart, so i used the optional rules for poisons in the core rules book. tried to set levels for poisons in the same way that some classes do weapons (rangers and bows ect.) i was worried that it needed a chart cause you right about the fact it will always work and no cost, and its early in levels. i see it is a game breaker and other feedback i got last night said the same. i do also see it looks more modern and not the feel of BF, i was trying something different i guess. i will take this back to drawing board and mak some adjustments.
Bill Sterns (Creative Design, Machination Game Designs)
- Dimirag
- Posts: 3613
- Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:24 pm
- Location: Buenos Aires (C.A.B.A.), Argentina
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Re: feedback on a new class
Some suggestions, grab any other class' odt file and work from it so you end with a more "BFRPG Style"
Change the name of the thread to that of the class so its easier to identify
Whenever you upload a new version, change the file in the first post with the new file, the new file should have the same name but with its R# increased ("class file r1" to "class file r2" for ex)
Now, onto the class:
As it state that they are warrior I'll assume that any non written rule about them is taken from fighters, but a note about that would be welcome.
I think the thieving skills should have lower values than those of a thief of same level.
They are expert knife throwers, should the attack bonus apply only when throwing daggers?
The poisons require more rules and details, the assassin supplement uses a chance of failure when creating them, my take on the assassin gives rules for creation and duration while my take on the quasi-class gives knowledge in detection but not in creation.
About the poison level requirements, I'm fine with them, but the lack of rules makes them appear arbitrary.
XP value should be balanced as the final step, based on the class itself and compared to the rest of the core classes.
Change the name of the thread to that of the class so its easier to identify
Whenever you upload a new version, change the file in the first post with the new file, the new file should have the same name but with its R# increased ("class file r1" to "class file r2" for ex)
Now, onto the class:
As it state that they are warrior I'll assume that any non written rule about them is taken from fighters, but a note about that would be welcome.
I think the thieving skills should have lower values than those of a thief of same level.
They are expert knife throwers, should the attack bonus apply only when throwing daggers?
The poisons require more rules and details, the assassin supplement uses a chance of failure when creating them, my take on the assassin gives rules for creation and duration while my take on the quasi-class gives knowledge in detection but not in creation.
About the poison level requirements, I'm fine with them, but the lack of rules makes them appear arbitrary.
XP value should be balanced as the final step, based on the class itself and compared to the rest of the core classes.
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
Drawing portfolio: https://www.instagram.com/m.serena_dimirag/
Drawing portfolio: https://www.instagram.com/m.serena_dimirag/
Re: feedback on a new class
I did not go thru this in depth, but I did want to share that the idea of a sort of Dark Ranger or Non-Urban Assassin is intriguing. Would like to read thru this when it gets more "finished".
Is it really the end, not some crazy dream?
Re: feedback on a new class
Here is r1 in our standard format.
- Attachments
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- BF-Umbra-Ward-Supplement-r1.pdf
- (94.79 KiB) Downloaded 235 times
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- BF-Umbra-Ward-Supplement-r1.odt
- (37.32 KiB) Downloaded 221 times
- BillTheButcher
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:53 pm
- Location: Quincy, Il.
Re: New class: Umbra Ward (Shadow Ranger)
I want to say Thank You and Sorry, I work a lot (7 days a week lately) and when i get home I'm lazy.
i will work on this to improve it, and i love all the feed back and ideas you guys have shared. I know BF has a flavor that ever one stays with, and i think I went a bit outside of it. I figured the poisons and how it worked was off, and bit OP, i didn't think it felt too modern though. I's seen other OSR games do similar things. i see it differently now and again i'm thankful for the Insight.
i will work on this to improve it, and i love all the feed back and ideas you guys have shared. I know BF has a flavor that ever one stays with, and i think I went a bit outside of it. I figured the poisons and how it worked was off, and bit OP, i didn't think it felt too modern though. I's seen other OSR games do similar things. i see it differently now and again i'm thankful for the Insight.
Bill Sterns (Creative Design, Machination Game Designs)
- BillTheButcher
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:53 pm
- Location: Quincy, Il.
Re: feedback on a new class
Thanks so much for taking the time to do this, i struggle a bit with the style guide for BF i don't care much for open office. I'll do my best to make it work. thanks again.
Bill Sterns (Creative Design, Machination Game Designs)
- Solomoriah
- Site Admin
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Re: New class: Umbra Ward (Shadow Ranger)
Hey Bill, didn't realize that was you! Welcome!
My personal site: www.gonnerman.org
- BillTheButcher
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:53 pm
- Location: Quincy, Il.
Re: New class: Umbra Ward (Shadow Ranger)
Thank You Kind Sir i hope to be a asset to this wonderful community and not the overworked lazy guy that only checks in on sundays lol.
Bill Sterns (Creative Design, Machination Game Designs)
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