Hit Dice as Attack Dice (easy-play group combat rules)

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Dimirag
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Re: Hit Dice as Attack Dice (easy-play group combat rules)

Post by Dimirag »

Common procedure is to upload files on the first post, as to make them easily available, and, if you upload a new version replace the old one with the file upping its release number, such as "File-r1" to "File-r2".
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
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billiambabble
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Re: Hit Dice as Attack Dice (easy-play group combat rules)

Post by billiambabble »

Okay will do.
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Re: Hit Dice as Attack Dice (easy-play group combat rules)

Post by billiambabble »

Simplified Group Combat - Revision 3 now added (see first post)

New rules added:
  • Group Combat - D6s Only
  • Alternative d6: "5s and 6s" (with example of combat)
  • Turning Undead
_

I'm particularly fond of a new idea which involves both sides rolling d6s and counting all 5s and 6s as "successes". Without a dice roller app this seems to be a faster method than adding up all of the dice results. I'm also finding myself preferring a system which uses one type of dice as opposed to the mixture of hit dice based dice which is what the original idea is based on.

I've tried to eliminate some typos but I seem to be confusing the upload system somehow (will return later, please forgive all my missing words etc)
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billiambabble
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Re: Hit Dice as Attack Dice (easy-play group combat rules)

Post by billiambabble »

"Last Man Standing" rules have been to the "5s & 6s" section of the "D6s-only" method.
See revised Simplified Group Combat document (revision 3.3/23rdApril2021)

This is is really simple idea for resolving an NPC vs. monsters type battle. The example I have in my mind is of a large low level militia force defending a town from raiding orcs*. Collective Hit Dice are converted 1 to 1 to pools of d6s, these are the Attack Dice.
Preferably use d6s of two different colours to represent both sides. Roll all the dice at once (if possible - small dice are good here). Remove all the dice which are not 5s or 6s. Keep rolling all of the dice until only one colour of dice is left on the table. That side have won the battle, the others are wounded to incapacitation or have fled.

* Example of combatants:
A second level fighter general (2d6) leading twenty men-at-arms (1d6 each)
Attack Dice = 22d6
vs.
Five orcs (1d6) on Worgs (4d6 each)
Attack Dice = 25d6
RLS89ZX
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Re: Hit Dice as Attack Dice (easy-play group combat rules)

Post by RLS89ZX »

Such an awesome concept for Mass Combat Rules in Basic Fantasy RPG, but how come you didn't add the OGL license to this supplement when BFRPG is under the OGL?
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billiambabble
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Re: Hit Dice as Attack Dice (easy-play group combat rules)

Post by billiambabble »

Thanks for reading. :) I was assuming that at Workshop pre-proof stage that the OGL was not required - and usually applied after formatting. Also I'm concerned that my initial notes, other explorations relating to these, refer to -as an intellectual exploration- Hit Dice in different editions of D&D. Direct references to which, for well intentioned reasons protecting consumers, are forbidden by the OGL. At this stage its more of a universal game tool that could be adopted or used by players of BFRPG. Since I haven't had much response (not an issue, I was floating it here partly because of my frustration with toxicity D&D/OSR/retroclone pages on Facebook) I'm happy just to keep it posted on my blogs and elsewhere as unofficial free fan work and thought process, in that form its arguably not the property of Wizards OGL (esp. non-commercially). The whole thing needs editing right down and possibly just settling on one dice system - I'm very fond of the "5,6s" d6s method which doesn't require totalling large numbers, so perhaps that might be of use to the Basic Fantasy community and library as a one page system (BF friendly PDF or ODT with OGL appendix). To be honest, I'm still not satisfied with where spells and special attacks, certain saves, character death, fit within this except in the simplest of engagements, but the very basics seemed to work for some solo adventuring which I know is of interest here.
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Re: Hit Dice as Attack Dice (easy-play group combat rules)

Post by Solomoriah »

The OGL is basically always required. Sharing stuff on the Workshop is a form of publication, as I understand it. But if you even use the name (THAT name) or any abbreviations of it, we can't even have it here. I haven't read your document, so I don't know what's in there, but please help us stay within the letter of the law.
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billiambabble
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Re: Hit Dice as Attack Dice (easy-play group combat rules)

Post by billiambabble »

Thanks, Chris, I think I understand better now. You invited me to share my ideas with the forum, for which I am grateful. The issue of formal publication as a download was not the first thing on my mind but the Workshop seemed to be an appropriate place to share ideas. Please move this thread to General Discussion or take the thread down if it breaks the forum rules. I can probably add the OGL with the revised document, but the initial ideas / proposal is more difficult to do that with - but still worth preserving perhaps because it will be of interest to players drawn to retroclones precisely because they played a variety of D&D games previously.

If the very mention of D&D in discussions or notes per say is against the rules then I'm not sure how informed development can occur without due credit to the original systems, its a loss to the quality of the discussions. In saying that, the sheer volume of content from this forum for BF disproves that. :)

I understand the need for guidelines in protecting Basic Fantasy and it not infringing on Wizards' products as finished printed or showcased downloads, but I seriously doubt lawyers will pursue product/company-unaligned forum opinions or attached docs, or that the license should be applied to forum threads. The fact that they haven't challenged the OSR publishers' broadest most audacious interpretation of a license designed to encourage a proliferation in d20 (3-3.5) products is testament to that.

I totally understand and respect why the forum needs content guidelines, and maybe even format of posting rules (like docs in first post, with revision numbers). To new enthusiastic users of the forum this can be a little alienating. Maybe we need another board just for floating ideas.

I'm not being adversarial here, sometimes the absolute adherence to a license document in all electronic contexts seems counter intuitive, counter creative even.

Would it help if under-revision documents (with no OGL) are not uploaded to the BF server and kept off-site? So it's a link out to unapproved items?
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Re: Hit Dice as Attack Dice (easy-play group combat rules)

Post by Solomoriah »

As an author, you are simply not allowed to mention any other games while discussing your own game or game materials which are under the OGL. Specifically, you can't "compare" them. Thus, any discussion where you credit original designers or even just discuss different ways they do things cannot include the actual name of the product. It could be argued that even having that discussion is a violation, but as far as I know that's never been legally tested.

We do skirt pretty close to the line sometimes. Note however that many who post these kinds of discussions here are not actual authors; if you aren't in the credits, you can say pretty much whatever you like. So often the discussions here wander beyond what I or Chi or any of the other authors could say. But you are acting as an author, so you'd have to follow that rule also.

You can always talk about game mechanics, you just can't attribute them to a specific game.
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FakeHealer
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Re: Hit Dice as Attack Dice (easy-play group combat rules)

Post by FakeHealer »

I am kinda loving this idea for more than just solo play...I think this is a great idea for making large scale battles workable. A group of dwarves vs orcs....25 crossbow dwarves, 25 melee dwarves, 10 dwarf casters vs. 20 orc longbows, 35 melee grunts, and 12 worg riders. you could run this easily with different groups focus-firing on others and such...really cool idea.
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