Magic-User Abilities

Creating game materials? Monsters, spells, classes, adventures? This is the place!
irichmond
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:56 am

Magic-User Abilities

Post by irichmond »

Hi there,

My name's Ivan. I've developed rules for Magic-User abilities, which I'm using in my current game. My goal was to make low level Magic-Users be able to contribute to the party more often. Rules-as-written, they can't contribute much at all, except for that rare Sleep spell. These rules provide them with little things they can do to help out. They don't overpower Magic-Users, because they're no substitute for high level spells.

The player who's playing the party Magic-User really liked them and felt it really hit the mark. So, I thought I'd share them, here.

Please let me know what you think. Love it? Hate it? Meh? I won't be offended if you don't like it, but I hope folks will give me constructive criticism either way. Anyway, if you like them and want to use them, here they are :).
Attachments
Magic-user Abilities-r2.odt
(14.63 KiB) Downloaded 184 times
Magic-user Abilities.pdf
(82.02 KiB) Downloaded 240 times
User avatar
Pirate GM13
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu May 20, 2021 3:24 am

Re: Magic-User Abilities

Post by Pirate GM13 »

irichmond wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:34 pm Hi there,

My name's Ivan. I've developed rules for Magic-User abilities, which I'm using in my current game. My goal was to make low level Magic-Users be able to contribute to the party more often. Rules-as-written, they can't contribute much at all, except for that rare Sleep spell. These rules provide them with little things they can do to help out. They don't overpower Magic-Users, because they're no substitute for high level spells.

The player who's playing the party Magic-User really liked them and felt it really hit the mark. So, I thought I'd share them, here.

Please let me know what you think. Love it? Hate it? Meh? I won't be offended if you don't like it, but I hope folks will give me constructive criticism either way. Anyway, if you like them and want to use them, here they are :).
1. I honestly don't get why people want to make the magic user "better" at lower levels. Sure, level 1 Magic users only cast one spell, but that doesn't mean that they are useless. And maybe you aren't supposed to be doing more than 1 or 2 combats per day with a level one party. And even if you are doing more combats (kind of dangerous) they can still fight. Have them think creatively, such as paralyzing a goblin with a staff near a shoulder. They can hold the torch and pull a "Gandalf", as in pick up flammable objects, light them on fire, and throw them at enemies.
2. I will go read it properly in a second, I just skimmed over it.
Is it the dice against you or you against the dice?
User avatar
Pirate GM13
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu May 20, 2021 3:24 am

Re: Magic-User Abilities

Post by Pirate GM13 »

As a moderator once said to me, OK review time!
I admit I do like the idea of a familiar
The astrology seems alright
Divination seems a little limited, but it is OK
The minor magic missile I am not a fan of
The cantrip may have not been thought through if combined with the other abilities
Detect Illusion I am also not a fan of
Fabulous languages may seem OK
Herbalism may have to be changed a little bit
Read magic is excellent
Detect Magic I don't like due to there being a spell for it
Is it the dice against you or you against the dice?
Rosisha
Posts: 452
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:17 am

Re: Magic-User Abilities

Post by Rosisha »

...
Last edited by Rosisha on Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Dimirag
Posts: 3613
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:24 pm
Location: Buenos Aires (C.A.B.A.), Argentina
Contact:

Re: Magic-User Abilities

Post by Dimirag »

I can understand both postures:
1: Be helpful outside of your character sheet
2: Put more things on my sheet so I can be helpful

I won't give my posture on the above as its not the focus of this topic. Please try to keep it on topic and do not deviate into war.

1 fight per day is a part of the game, every class is inside this true, if you add special abilities to change this, make sure that every class gets the treatment.

Now, as I said to a project collaborator before: Review time!

Analyze Magic. Detect Magic. Read Magic: These are spells converted into special abilities, I'm ok with that (I use some of them) but with the current roll procedure they become infallible (unless the optional rules are used), I would prefer a % chance like the one for spell research or give points each level so the character can become better at some skills or learn new ones.

Gaining new abilities seems both to subjective and random, and considering that there is only one chance score for all of the existing abilities the character can go from 0 to 100 in one level, specially at high level where they have 20/20 chances of acquiring new abilities and 20/20 chances of using those newly learned abilities.

Analyze Magic is either to powerful or to vague once left to a GM judgement. It should take a good amount of time, maybe some consumables, or put the character in an unbreakable trance for the duration, leave it exhausted after its used, etc...

Cantrip: Extremely subjective, special for a player that does not know what it can do with that skill, maybe better let it cast an actual cantrip from the supplement or simply use the rule from cantrips.

Detect illusion: This one is powerful, a high level MU is virtually immune to illusions. Should require either active use or knowing that the target is an actual illusion.

Detect Magic: Although being focused on one target per roll is a good thing, it requires something extra for balance.

Divination need a reshape: As it stands now its kinda strange having the MU drawing cards, failing its check and not being able to make the question... I would made it such that is a secret roll, with failure being a more cryptic answer or even a wrong one.

Fabulous Languages: I assume this is actual several sub-special abilities that are gained individually.

Find familiar seems like a double edged sword, with the sharper side towards the MU. This need more balance against itself and against other special abilities.

Herbalism: I do not like having to roll for healing 1d3 points after rolling to see if I can find the herbs, make just one roll, either to find or to heal.
Natural diseases should require more herbs to work properly.

Lesser Magic Missile: Check the options for arcane bolt in the MU Option Supplement (I like those better).

Read Magic: As with similar special skills, needs some balancing.
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
Drawing portfolio: https://www.instagram.com/m.serena_dimirag/
irichmond
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:56 am

Re: Magic-User Abilities

Post by irichmond »

Thanks, everyone. This is all very useful feedback for the most part. I'll mull all that over and rework things. You've made some good points.
daryen
Posts: 523
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:25 pm

Re: Magic-User Abilities

Post by daryen »

On cantrips, go check out the 0 Level Spells supplement on the Downloads page. (This is what Dimirag was referring to.)

For another take, check out 0 Level Magic. (I wrote that one.) It is an example of how to keep things general, give hard limits, but not have to come up with an exhaustive list of actual spells. Another example of how to keep cantrips generic is in Sword & Board.
User avatar
Solomoriah
Site Admin
Posts: 12453
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:15 pm
Location: LaBelle, Missouri
Contact:

Re: Magic-User Abilities

Post by Solomoriah »

Rosisha wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:03 amTwo things:
1. Because it is boring to go in, have one fight, and then be useless if the players move on
2. There are a THOUSAND threads on the internet - maybe millions - where retreating out to rest gets you accused of metagaming and "breaking the system."
In general, my experience combined with extensive statistical analysis indicates that "if the players move on" they are fools. At first level, you fight one fight, and then you rest. If you are very, very lucky, you may get a second fight without dying, but three times is a unlikely, unless the GM is handing out presents. So the magic-user, in a fairly-run game, should not be standing around all that much.

And number 2 is just nonsense. It's not "metagaming," it makes sense in character to be cautious when you've already got some injured guys and have used up some limited resources. It's not "breaking the system" when the system is designed this way intentionally. And lastly, why in the name of Gygax do you care what anyone says on some thread on the Internet?
My personal site: www.gonnerman.org
User avatar
Pirate GM13
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu May 20, 2021 3:24 am

Re: Magic-User Abilities

Post by Pirate GM13 »

Good Speech sir (salute)
Sorry couldn't help myself
Anyway I agree fully with Solomoriah (I think I spelled it correctly this time)
Is it the dice against you or you against the dice?
Rosisha
Posts: 452
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:17 am

Re: Magic-User Abilities

Post by Rosisha »

.
Last edited by Rosisha on Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 45 guests