Cool, a W. What's that supposed to stand for? Witch's brew?

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LibraryLass
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Cool, a W. What's that supposed to stand for? Witch's brew?

Post Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:05 pm

Threw together a new class. I know, I know, Solo said no more classes. But come on. It's a witch. Everyone loves witches. Witches are awesome.

Also if any of our artists wanna take a crack at an illustration for it, I'd be all about that. :D

Edit: Two versions are now up, I'd like peoples' opinions on whether to go with the more strongly magic-user-y third draft, which has traded out brews and lucky charms for the magic user's spell progression (and XP requirements) and a larger selection of spells, or the second draft. (3/6/2013)
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Last edited by LibraryLass on Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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SmootRK
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Re: Cool, a W. What's that supposed to stand for? Witch's brew?

Post Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:55 pm

LibraryLass wrote:Threw together a new class. I know, I know, Solo said no more classes. But come on. It's a witch. Everyone loves witches. Witches are awesome.

Also if any of our artists wanna take a crack at an illustration for it, I'd be all about that. :D
I like it. I like it a lot. I can see this class working well, even alongside a nasty like Necromancer without overlapping their schtick. My thoughts on further refinement:

I would perhaps suggest they have a broom flight spell, (lower level Fly, but with the danger of falling off, damage to broom while in flight, etc... instead of the 4th level Fly you have listed).

I think they need a couple more Conjuration Spells... calling minions to do the fighting for them.

I would speed up the brewing of potion effects, but making the potions last only 1 day (and limited number brewed, to something like 1 potion at 1st, and an additional such brew every odd level thereafter (3, 5, 7th, etc). Each such potion requiring 10 minutes of uninterrupted preparation and brewing time, and requires the use of the witch's cauldron (an item with some weight for such a MU sort likely to have low STR).

There are spells in the Libram Magica that will likely be very useful, though I understand trying to keep things small, concise, and limited to core elements when writing. Perhaps an addendum or appendix that expands their spell lists can be offered as an option. Likewise, If I use the class, I would probably automatically utilize the Familiar Rules I recently put up (again, as an afterthought for GM's to expand the idea with).
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jackel
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Re: Cool, a W. What's that supposed to stand for? Witch's brew?

Post Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:38 pm

!!!!!! :o I love you Library Lass. MARRY ME!
On the serious side. I agree with Smoot with the exception of the potions only lasting one day. My stand on it, is witches are (usually) on the edge of civilizations and might be 2 or more days journey from some sort of village or city. Hummm, I guess they could live in a city, maybe it should be tagged as 'determined by the DM'. I think I will be using this along side of the Necromancer, maybe even supporting a mean nasty....
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Re: Cool, a W. What's that supposed to stand for? Witch's brew?

Post Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:22 pm

I see some potential problems...
They advance as clerics but only have their spell-casting progression. This means that they must survive first level with zero spells, luckily they have their brew potion ability BUT it takes an entire day of work, so no adventuring on that day, and after that the brew have a short live span which make hard for a which to accumulate some brews for an adventuring day...

My advice:

-Give them some ability to gather brewing materials, and a percentage of succeeding at creating the brews. This means that the witch doesn't lose its ability to brew inside a dungeon but its limited to the amount of material she's carrying.
-Use the Fighter XP table.

One question: The number before each concoction has any particular use?
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MedievalMan
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Re: Cool, a W. What's that supposed to stand for? Witch's brew?

Post Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:09 pm

I would say that the potions should last a number of days equal to the witches level +1. Also Dimirag what are you talking about? Clerics require less Exp than Fighters do, giving the witch the Fighters advancement would only hurt them.

All in all good job Lass.
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Re: Cool, a W. What's that supposed to stand for? Witch's brew?

Post Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:41 pm

MedievalMan wrote:I would say that the potions should last a number of days equal to the witches level +1. Also Dimirag what are you talking about? Clerics require less Exp than Fighters do, giving the witch the Fighters advancement would only hurt them.

All in all good job Lass.
While I appreciate the ability to brew to solve what lies before her, I don't want a witch to brew-fest up before an adventure and have massive numbers of such things on hand. I would be more inclined to a few each day (about half her level), each brew-able in a few minutes... after all we are talking effectively freebie spell effects. Ten Minute prep times mean she can deal with problems with a few minutes head start, but does not help when surprised (unless she just happens to have something on hand).

Also, the way I see it, witches are grazers for materials. Bit of dung here, herb thing there, and able to improvise and blend to something workable with the random ingredients.

As far as spell progression and XP, I think the clerical progression is fine,appropriate even considering they can do some of the clerical type spells.
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LibraryLass
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Re: Cool, a W. What's that supposed to stand for? Witch's brew?

Post Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:33 am

SmootRK wrote: I would perhaps suggest they have a broom flight spell, (lower level Fly, but with the danger of falling off, damage to broom while in flight, etc... instead of the 4th level Fly you have listed).

I think they need a couple more Conjuration Spells... calling minions to do the fighting for them.
Maybe. I am pretty happy with the spell list I gave them, and I don't want to expand it too much. Generally I think of a flying broomstick as a magic item more than the effect of a spell.
I would speed up the brewing of potion effects, but making the potions last only 1 day (and limited number brewed, to something like 1 potion at 2nd, and an additional such brew every even level thereafter (2, 4, 6th, etc). Each such potion requiring 10 minutes of uninterrupted preparation and brewing time, and requires the use of the witch's cauldron (an item with some weight for such a MU sort likely to have low STR).
As it stands they need their spellbook to brew potions, for what it's worth. Limiting the number of potions they have brewed at a time challenges my immersion a little, but I'll try and find a good balance.
There are spell in the Libram Magica that will likely be very useful, though I understand trying to keep things small, concise, and limited to core elements when writing. Perhaps an addendum or appendix that expands their spell lists can be offered as an option. Likewise, If I use the class, I would probably automatically utilize the Familiar Rules I recently put up (again, as an afterthought for GM's to expand the idea with).
Only reason I didn't include a note to that effect is because I wanted to make sure this was easy to use on its own. I might poke my head into LM (and perhaps the druid supplement) and see if anything grabs me.
Dimirag wrote:One question: The number before each concoction has any particular use?
Originally I was going to have them need to record individual recipes in their spellbook like 1st level spells, the numbering was there to roll for starting ones when creating a character. But I think that nerfed them a little too much.

What do you guys think about the idea of also letting them have the ability to make some kind of lucky charm or fetish, or adding a good-luck potion to the list?
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Re: Cool, a W. What's that supposed to stand for? Witch's brew?

Post Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:45 am

My mistake on the XP value, I used the Charts and tables and didn't realize the classes aren't on the same order as on the corebook... :oops:

Charms and fetishes are a good option, I use them on my Witch class (unfinished) to do Sympathetic Magic: by using some body part of the victim/objective it gives a ST penalty or a spell benefit.

Use the mechanism for brews, just require higher level and a week or so for creation time.

At a high level, for a month worth of working the with can create a hex-bag (she can create more bags as she gains levels). Holding one gives a ST bonus against spells.
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Joe the Rat
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Re: Cool, a W. What's that supposed to stand for? Witch's brew?

Post Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:32 pm

LibraryLass wrote:Originally I was going to have them need to record individual recipes in their spellbook like 1st level spells, the numbering was there to roll for starting ones when creating a character. But I think that nerfed them a little too much.
I think its okay to start them with a limited number of brews. How many is the question. Let them gain a new one each level, and more with research.
LibraryLass wrote:What do you guys think about the idea of also letting them have the ability to make some kind of lucky charm or fetish, or adding a good-luck potion to the list?
As an expendable, yes. You might even want to extend the description to "charms and potions"

What I am picturing is that there are two types of effects they can create: potions (immediate effect when used, short shelf-life), and charms (passively activated single-use effects, possibly a slightly longer shelf life). Potions we all know and love. A protection potion has a duration, that activates when drunk. A charm would work a little differently. A protection charm (to ward off the evil eye, natch) activates when they are targeted by something evil, providing an AC/saving throw bonus as appropriate, but only against that source, or only against that attack. Then it is used up. The limited amount of "cover" is offset by the fact that you don't have to 'cast' it. Again, shelf life on the charm keeps you from overloading the party with perishable periapts.

Charms should mostly be about protection, though a luck charm would certainly be fitting (though how you decide when it activates, and in what form is another issue). You could set up a separate list of charms, or have a combined "cookbook" of charms and potions (with the effects noted for being one or the other). A feather fall charm has great potential.

Limited Numbers, Shelf Life, and Balance
You obviously want a balance between making this too little at low levels, and too much at high levels. Unless you forecast being able to outfit an entire army with brews at high levels, you want a slower growth scale. Something akin to the revised 0-level progression (1+# of 1st level spell slots, maybe with attribute mod) gives you a cap. Whether you use this for number of active brews, shelf life, or both - or do something else entirely - can be worked out.

Levels of brews: If you find effects that are a bit too potent, you could set up a second tier of recipes - accessible only after 3rd or 5th level (or higher). I would only do this if you specifically have too strong of effects.

Shelf life has an inherent logic to it: All natural, no preservatives. This is not an alchemically sterilized and preserved concoction. It still has seeds in it. It's not dissipating magic, it's spoilage. Charms, as temporary, active protections are running a passive monitoring, and have only so much power for the battery. That and some of the more organic bits may degrade as well. So you want something that holds up longer? They have access to magical research and item creation! Maybe witches are limited to amulets and potions, maybe they have bonuses in terms of success/reduction of material costs for these specific item types.

Limiting the number of creations in a day: Is fairly straightforward. Some bit of the witch's power is needed to make the potion work, otherwise any old midwife could whip them up - and the stirring and reciting poetry part looks a bit silly. Energy investment in Charms should be obvious in this regard.

The amount of time this should take really effects the flavor of the witch in an adventuring party. Fast production (10 minutes, plus the time it takes to get the cauldron set up and cooking) makes this a on-demand, near-real-time response. Taking all day takes them out of the adventure/makes this a recovery day activity. You could split the difference, say several turns (I'm partial to one hour +1d4 turns per potion/charm created). This makes it more of a camp-time production, but you could stop and cook one on the fly if you really needed to. Production time would also influence your shelf life: the faster you can cook something up, the less time it remains viable.
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Re: Cool, a W. What's that supposed to stand for? Witch's brew?

Post Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:41 pm

More Spell Ideas:
The Field Guide's Jack O'Lantern spell.. fits perfect.

Animate Scarecrow - makes a guardian about as tough as a Skeleton or Zombie.

Familiar Transference - transfers an amount of her life essence to a familiar. Should witch fall to zero hit points subsequently, she falls unconscious normally (as if dead). However (and assuming familiar survives encounter), the familiar can breathe life back to the witch, restoring the witch with 1d4 hit points, but any spells in memory are lost. The duration of the transference is 1 hour per level of the witch (if otherwise unused), but the time period between "death" of witch and her restoration can be up to 1 day per level of the witch. (while Transference is still viable, the familiar does not suffer the typical detriments of the loss of its master)

Call Crows - calls a small group of crows, ravens, magpies, or similar birds to attack her foes.
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