Monster Dexterity Bonus?

[entr0py]

The game as written, with a d6 initiative role, and player characters gaining large (percentage-wise) dexterity bonuses to that roll, results in players acting first in the majority of cases (assuming no surprise). Monsters have no Dexterity score, and, except for a few cases, no bonus to initiative. I just wonder if this was developed and written this way to intentionally give the players an advantage.

At the same time, the small number of possible initiative results (6) often leads to simultaneous actions during the round. Playing with figurines on a battlemat makes this problematic so i've house-ruled away simultaneous actions, with everyone having a unique turn order. I'm curious if others have noticed this and if they also felt the need to change it.

[SmootRK]

Not sure about it being "built in" for player advantage, Solo can respond to that. D6 initiative goes back to roots of game.

Now for myself, I will modify how initiative is generated sometimes. With experienced gamers who understand and like the complexities of simultaneous actions, d6 roll is fine... even preferred. However when I game with children or even adults who are new to gaming, taking distinct turns seems easier to understand and manage.. and I have been known to roll d10, d12 or even d20 when determining combat sequence.

I don't necessarily 'remove' all simultaneous actions, as there are events that need to be simultaneous, such as delay actions when waiting for opponents to close distance, setting a spear against a charge, or deliberately trying to disrupt spellcasting.

[Tree Ant]

If you're rolling 3d6 it will not give the players an advantage on average.
You are just as likely to get a -1 as a +1, -2 as +2, etc.

[Dimirag]

Perhaps the original game didn't use the Dex mod for Init and is a later addition, but, thanks to the 3d6 curve the chances of penalties are the same that for bonuses and bigger bonuses (and penalties) has smaller chances of appear.

[Longman]

I use d6 but give monsters some bonuses, too. Often just a +1.

Goblins and smaller humanoids definitely +1. Animals like bears, boars etc, also a +1. Some sylvan types a +2.

[Solomoriah]

The game does not give Dex bonuses to monsters by design... the part of the design where we mimic the 1981-era game which inspired me. Longman's approach is how I actually run my game.

As to removing simultaneous actions... why? My players don't find it confusing, and yes, we use miniatures and a battlemat. It's not really confusing at all, as far as we are concerned. I guess I just don't understand.

[Clever_Munkey]

I use a d12 for initiative, mostly because it doesn't get used enough otherwise, but also because of simultaneous turns. Coming from a modern d20 system, simultaneous turns threw me off, so the d12 gave a large spread and lower likely hood of simultaneous turns. This eased me and my players into it to the point where we feel like it just makes sense.

I occasionally watch long sword fencing tournaments, and there are definitely times when both people strike at the same time, usually to no effect, or a mutually destructive one.

[entr0py]

thanks for all the replies.
To tho's who have no issue with simultaneous movement and action, I'm happy for you. I didn't want to imply that simultaneous init was 'confusing', i guess its just less orderly than the normal 'you go, then he goes, then i go....

To tho's who don't understand my problem with it...
here's a simple simultaneous scenario...
Alfonz rushes at Burthold to attack.
Burthold says "if he's coming towards me i flee out of the room so he cant attack me."
Alfonz who sees he won't be able to reach Burthold says "if i see him running out the door i just stop and throw a dagger instead.
Burthold says "well if he stops, i stop, and throw my dagger instead"
Alfonz says "hold on! the only reason i stopped was because he said he was fleeing..."
....
it just gets worse with more than two moving and acting simultaneously.
i dm 8 players. i get at least one of these per round, often more.

Yes, I could make them each stick to their first declared actions. But if the actions are truly simultaneous why can't there be simultaneous re-actions.
Or, I could be one of 'those' dm's that makes everyone declare actions before initiative, but i hated playing that style.. too often stuck with a bad init roll, and because of battlefield changes my declared action was moot.
Nope it's easy...no simultaneous init...everyone takes there turn... no arguing.

[Solomoriah]

thanks for all the replies.
To tho's who have no issue with simultaneous movement and action, I'm happy for you. I didn't want to imply that simultaneous init was 'confusing', i guess its just less orderly than the normal 'you go, then he goes, then i go....

To tho's who don't understand my problem with it...
here's a simple simultaneous scenario...
Alfonz rushes at Burthold to attack.
Burthold says "if he's coming towards me i flee out of the room so he cant attack me."
Alfonz who sees he won't be able to reach Burthold says "if i see him running out the door i just stop and throw a dagger instead.
Burthold says "well if he stops, i stop, and throw my dagger instead"
Alfonz says "hold on! the only reason i stopped was because he said he was fleeing..."

This doesn't fly at my table. As soon as I get "well if he stops, I stop," both combatant's rounds are over and we move on, because both of them are waffling. When your number comes up (whether it's the one you rolled or the one you said you'd wait for), you do the first thing you said, or you do nothing, no other choices because there is no time to change your mind.

[Longman]

The thread isn't really about monster dex bonus any more. In fact, if you give monsters initiative bonuses like I do, tied initiative is just as likely to occur, if not moreso.

Entr0py - do you have PCs fighting each other at your table? Your example sounds a bit like you do.

In that case, I'd just resolve the tie. Highest dex? Whichever action I deemed to be the fastest? Or just a plain reroll.

But your PCs are fighting monsters or NPC opponents - then presumably the GM will know the opponent's intended action, and stick to it. So if the GM says their NPC is going to flee, and a PC says they are going to try to attack, then that is what happens. Both combatants do what they said. No changing of minds. You work out the round accordingly. Maybe the NPC moved 60 feet, and you give the PC the option of running only 30 feet, before giving up?

Maybe in situations like this, you should ask the PC for a declaration of actions. Doesn't mean you have to do it for everyone in the whole round. Just the tied combatants.

I'm starting to wonder why this never comes up in my games. Just never happens.