Any tips on running JN1 The Chaotic Caves?

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Ironwolf
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Any tips on running JN1 The Chaotic Caves?

Post by Ironwolf »

I may be running The Chaotic Caves soon, for a group of 3 or 4 players. Does anyone here have any advice or recommendations on running this adventure?

Would it be a meatgrinder for 3 or 4 players? The PCs will start as Level 1 PCs. Should I allow NPCs to join the party, to make the party stronger?
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SmootRK
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Re: Any tips on running JN1 The Chaotic Caves?

Post by SmootRK »

Have each player have a couple extra characters rolled up on hand... just because.

Start level one at max HP, small boost to get level ones a bit more survive-ability.

Players should be prepped mentally for the lethal nature of lowest levels; make sure they include retreat and/or full blown running away when the situation requires. In this game, nobody is a hero at level one... just survival is the "big Win" for lowest levels.

On GM side, have NPCs ready to deploy. Have some monsters be more favorably inclined to the party than just being there to fight... of course, this requires players to be ready to parlay and interact in ways other than swords. When it comes to the caves and the humanoids within... they are a chaotic lot... there could be a faction within an individual lair that wants to become chief; just waiting for the opportunity to turn on their leader when his chips are down... it is part of the plot of so many stories/movies.

Have players invest in guards, torch bearers, dogs, etc. to round out the adventuring crew. These are easily elevated to proper characters when they suffer losses.

Make sure there are ample opportunities for players to run/get back to town to rest. If they are pounded relentlessly, and chased all the way back by full forces of caves they will have little chance to survive.

Consider prior to having the players hit the caves on day one, have them exploring the environs, make a few contacts/friends, find a little treasure to fund additional preparations, etc. and most of all get a little bit of real experience in how to work together (not just XP). They can develop some little bits of tactics in these encounters.

That's it for now. There is tremendous extra advice around here...
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merias
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Re: Any tips on running JN1 The Chaotic Caves?

Post by merias »

The Halfling home is not too bad if the players take it one encounter location at a time and rest in between. The ruined castle with the orcs will be difficult simply because it is a defensible position for the orcs, so they have to be surprised or otherwise tricked to come out of the ruins. The bandits on the road would be too hard if a fight ensues - you would need to reduce the number of bandit fighters (10 as written). The Harpy is iffy, if one or two PCs fail their saves they are toast, and you also have the giant toads to contend with. The cave of horrors will be very hard for a few 1st-level PCs. For the chaotic caves themselves, I'd say they will be very deadly as written for 3 or 4 1st-level PCs. Hopefully they don't find either of the caves until they get some XP and another level (I think that is the intent of the module anyway).

So to start , I would cut down on the number of enemies in the set wilderness encounters and also the number of wandering enemies. Do that in the caves also. If they can handle it, I'd let them run two PCs each, or bolster the party with some hired help or NPCs as you suggest. If you want to run it all as-is, I'd make the PCs start at 3rd level.
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Re: Any tips on running JN1 The Chaotic Caves?

Post by Solomoriah »

Not "3rd level," but 5,000 XP (5,500 XP for humans) so that they have a normal distribution of levels. Otherwise I agree with merias.
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ThorinSchmidt
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Re: Any tips on running JN1 The Chaotic Caves?

Post by ThorinSchmidt »

When I ran it for my students, I started them with "Kidnapped!". It was a case of Mistaken Identity. The baddies thought they had captured a high level group initially, then didn't really know what to do with them after capture. Then, when the group got to the town, people also mistook them for the high-level group. (oh what fun I had!) anyway, that first adventure got them some XP, exploring around got them some more, and I sprinkled a couple AA adventures around the area as well. It got them ready to tackle the Caves, which I envisioned as sort of a crucible for other bad guys. Like, the Caves were a place for the little Bad Guys to rest and re-supply. So all the little adventures had tie-ins to the Caves, giving the players valuable intel when they were finally able to tackle it.
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knottyprof2
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Re: Any tips on running JN1 The Chaotic Caves?

Post by knottyprof2 »

I know this is an old thread but figured I would post since we started this a few sessions ago. Before play I went through and personalized the town and named it Black Brough (yes I was aware of Black Apple Brugh and probably stuck in my head when I named The Town) and went through and gave family names and descriptions for pretty much all of the buildings in town and the initial characters were natives.
Started off heading to the nearby ruins to deal with the orc infestation and that went well for four sessions then last session started with a TPK. I have been rolling for random monsters every session and last session I finally rolled a 2 so ended up rolling on the random monster table that resulted in 6 bandits. I had the bandits hiding in some trees and firing short bows while the party was on the trail heading back to the ruins with the stone masons as they planned on starting back up harvesting rock there. The brothers that ran the quarry were shot and killed in a surprise round then the characters either attempted to fire at the bandits in the trees or was scrambling to get up on the cart. A couple bandits were hit but die rolls were not favoring the party and they didn't scramble for cover so they got picked off one by one before the last party member managed to get the cart turned around and moving but a fatal shot took him out as the draft horse took off. The wagon made it back to town with two of the dead party members but the others were left at the scene.
So new characters were created and I am taking the random encounter and working it up into the story to try and entice the new party to track down the bandits that killed the original party.
I am using Small Niche Game's Guidebook of Valnwall for the setting and found a spot that works pretty well with the map in the Chaotic Caves so the town is on the edge of the Alfpine forest.
Honestly don't know how long before the characters actually find or begin exploring the caves but I plan on working part of the bandit angle with the bandits found in the caves as well.
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FakeHealer
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Re: Any tips on running JN1 The Chaotic Caves?

Post by FakeHealer »

knottyprof2 wrote: Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:05 pm I know this is an old thread but .......
So new characters were created and I am taking the random encounter and working it up into the story to try and entice the new party to track down the bandits that killed the original party.
I am using Small Niche Game's Guidebook of Valnwall for the setting and found a spot that works pretty well with the map in the Chaotic Caves so the town is on the edge of the Alfpine forest.
Honestly don't know how long before the characters actually find or begin exploring the caves but I plan on working part of the bandit angle with the bandits found in the caves as well.
Just a little advice...I try to use random encounters in ways not expected. For instance, a low level party roll for something I KNOW is potentially horrendous..."You look upwards and to the east to see a huge, you think red, dragon flying in circles before it goes into a dive and disappears from your sight behind the treeline. It looked to be a few miles away if you had to guess". Then you may have an adventure hook for later when they might be able to tackle the threat and it makes the world more living.
For the bandits maybe "They don't seem to notice you in the distance but up ahead it looks like some bandits have raided a small caravan and just took off on Axebeak back into the woods...they look very strong so it may be a good idea to move carefully in this area in the future to avoid problems until you are able to bring more muscle and resources to track them down".
just my 2 but to me random encounters are perfect for something more Random than just another fight, like setting up future side treks.
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teaman
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Re: Any tips on running JN1 The Chaotic Caves?

Post by teaman »

Another option is to split the map. All the caves and lairs don't have to be in the same area. That way you can just drop them in wherever you like. That way you can tailor the adventure to their level. This also opens up the opportunity for more overland travel to get to the different lairs.

And thanks to J.D. Neal and everyone for this new version of a classic adventure.
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knottyprof2
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Re: Any tips on running JN1 The Chaotic Caves?

Post by knottyprof2 »

FakeHealer wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:11 pm Just a little advice...I try to use random encounters in ways not expected. For instance, a low level party roll for something I KNOW is potentially horrendous..."You look upwards and to the east to see a huge, you think red, dragon flying in circles before it goes into a dive and disappears from your sight behind the treeline. It looked to be a few miles away if you had to guess". Then you may have an adventure hook for later when they might be able to tackle the threat and it makes the world more living.
For the bandits maybe "They don't seem to notice you in the distance but up ahead it looks like some bandits have raided a small caravan and just took off on Axebeak back into the woods...they look very strong so it may be a good idea to move carefully in this area in the future to avoid problems until you are able to bring more muscle and resources to track them down".
just my 2 but to me random encounters are perfect for something more Random than just another fight, like setting up future side treks.
Actually adding a bit of a side quest to deal with the bandits for the new party plus there is a bandits cave system in the chaotic caves so more incentive to find them. Storyline-wise, my thinking is that the bandits have individuals that frequent the tavern in town to scout out potential victims so that would be a good hook to have the new party figure that out and flush them out and eventually lead to the bandit caves (also have a bandit camp, but still fleshing that out).
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spielemusik
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Re: Any tips on running JN1 The Chaotic Caves?

Post by spielemusik »

knottyprof2 wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:23 pm
FakeHealer wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:11 pm Just a little advice...I try to use random encounters in ways not expected. For instance, a low level party roll for something I KNOW is potentially horrendous..."You look upwards and to the east to see a huge, you think red, dragon flying in circles before it goes into a dive and disappears from your sight behind the treeline. It looked to be a few miles away if you had to guess". Then you may have an adventure hook for later when they might be able to tackle the threat and it makes the world more living.
For the bandits maybe "They don't seem to notice you in the distance but up ahead it looks like some bandits have raided a small caravan and just took off on Axebeak back into the woods...they look very strong so it may be a good idea to move carefully in this area in the future to avoid problems until you are able to bring more muscle and resources to track them down".
just my 2 but to me random encounters are perfect for something more Random than just another fight, like setting up future side treks.
Actually adding a bit of a side quest to deal with the bandits for the new party plus there is a bandits cave system in the chaotic caves so more incentive to find them. Storyline-wise, my thinking is that the bandits have individuals that frequent the tavern in town to scout out potential victims so that would be a good hook to have the new party figure that out and flush them out and eventually lead to the bandit caves (also have a bandit camp, but still fleshing that out).
that's a nice touch to have the bandits send 'scouts' into town to the tavern...
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