Optional combat options question

[cbarchuk]

Hi there,

Looking at using the combat options supplement. My question is concerning how dual wielding would interact with weapon specialization starting at level 7 where my fighter would have 3/2 attacks per round. So would it work out to be 4 attacks every other round? Then at level 13 I assume it would then be 4 attacks per round? Seems a bit excessive. Has anyone had experience with this?

[Solomoriah]

The canonical model here is longsword and dagger. Assuming you're specialized in longsword, you'd get 1 attack in every odd round, 2 in every even, plus 1 dagger attack (you only get a normal number of attacks per round with a non-specialized weapon); so, 2 total attacks in the first round, 3 in the second, and so on.

If you chose specialization in the shortsword, I suppose you could get to 4 attacks on every even round if you stuck to the given rate of 1 in the odd rounds, 2 in the even. As GM, though, I always simplify the rate of attack as if it's a normal fraction. Thus, 2 times 3/2 is 3/1, or 3 per round. I'd describe this as two attacks with the primary weapon and one with the secondary in the odd rounds, and the other way around in the even (it would matter if the weapons had different magical features, and of course affects the attack rolls anyway).

[Dimirag]

If the character is using two different weapons and is specialized in one of them, only that weapon receives the extra attacks

If the character is using two different weapons and is specialized in both of them, both weapons receive the extra attacks. Compared to a character specialized in only one weapon, a character dividing his ranks evenly between the two weapons (4 ranks in one, 3 in the other) will get a lesser amount of total attack until level 16 and one more attack every 2 rounds at 19th level.

If the character is using the same specialized weapon, both of them weapon receives the extra attacks. If this is too much, you can rule that using the of hand weapon is different that using the main one, and thus it does not receive the extra attacks.

[Seven]

There is a penalty for double wielding.
I think it's -2 on the primary and -4 on the secondary.
In the case of double wielding and specializing, I'd gradually, reduce the penalty instead of adding extra attacks, but not to the point the single handed specialization has more attacks.
But, that's just me.

[Solomoriah]

The penalties are literally in the supplement... why guess at it?

[cbarchuk]

My character is a low strength, high dex elven fighter dual wielding short swords that he is specialized in. Here are his combat stats at level 2.

Strength: 13
Dexterity: 18
Rank I: Short Sword

I'm also using the light weapon options. So with 2 short swords he would have:

+3 to hit with the main hand & a +1 to hit with the off hand. Is my math right?

[Dimirag]

The primary weapon must, obviously, be one-handed, and the secondary must be a dagger, handaxe, or similar very small weapon.

The off-handed weapon normally does not get multiple attacks, even if allowed by specialization

Now, as for the bonuses, I think this are the corresponding values:

Bonuses.png (7.86 KiB) Viewed 3786 times

[cbarchuk]

Man how did I get my math wrong? First is a short sword qualify to be an off hand weapon? I know its not specifically listed but it is listed as a light weapon.

Alright I'm dual wielding and my raw attack bonuses is 0 / -2. Got it.
My Short Sword specialization gives me a +1. So now it's +1 / -1.
My basic attack bonus at level 2 is +2. That puts me at +3 / +1

I'm not seeing how I should have a +5 / +3.

I did not read the part about the off hand not being able to do multiple attacks. So at rank 4 I would have 2 attacks per round. So would that be only 3 attacks per round since the off hand can't do multiple attacks?

[Dimirag]

First is a short sword qualify to be an off hand weapon? I know its not specifically listed but it is listed as a light weapon.

It have to be very small, but, a shortsword has very similar size and weight compared to a handaxe which is a permitted secondary weapon....

My basic attack bonus at level 2 is +2

Silly me, I used the attack bonus for 1st level, so they should be 1 point higher

First you have your ability bonus. Normally the STR bonus, but do to the "light weapons" optional rule we are using the DEX bonus. We start with a +3.

Then you have the 2 weapon penalty, modified by your Dex bonus. +0/-2. We are now at +3/+1

Then your attack bonus comes in: +2, for a +5/+3

Finally its specialization time: a +1 making the final bonuses +6/+4

I did not read the part about the off hand not being able to do multiple attacks. So at rank 4 I would have 2 attacks per round. So would that be only 3 attacks per round since the off hand can't do multiple attacks?

At Ranks 1 and 2 you have 2 attacks. 1/1 main, 1/1 secondary.
At Ranks 3 and 4 you have 5/2 attacks. 3/2 main, 1/1 secondary.
At Ranks 5 and 6 you have 3 attacks. 2/1 main, 1/1 secondary.

[cbarchuk]

Okay I see what I did. I wasn't adding my DEX bonus. I thought it was already included when figuring out your bonus or penalty from dual wielding. I think I got it. It's pretty powerful I must say. Has anyone had any experience with this? Does it strike anyone as being too powerful?