I've either developed a bad habit or my players tend to over complicate things

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GrimlinJoe
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I've either developed a bad habit or my players tend to over complicate things

Post by GrimlinJoe »

It has happened to me a few times while DMing that I set a scene for my players that in my mind seems like a straight forward task but often becomes and impossible objective for them.

Now I try not give things away for my players because of how much they tend to enjoy figuring things out for themselves. I always award critical thinking over applying force in situations. I often try to create scenarios that will really get my players involved with the story or get them in the mindset of their characters but I have had a few situations where when present an objective to them that spend more time strategizing and overthinking compared to trial and error. Now I know OSRs can be far more deadly than some of the newer game systems but I need to find a cohesive way for my players to progress in the story and game without creating these scenarios where they gravitate towards the complicated.

As an example, in my most recent campaign I have presented the story so far as they are an adventuring party of misfits that has been recruited to help hunt a monster that is terrorizing a small village. They have made it to the cave the supposed monster should be in. Little do they know that this is a wild goose chase. I took the Bear dungeon from AA2 as they dungeon they will be going through and have an ambush set at the very end.

Here is the dilemma. They are too afraid to go into the cave. They have been spending the last few days strategizing how they will lure it out instead of scouting or attempting any trial and error. In their defense I have hyped up this monster to seem very terrifying.

My current approach to try to get them to enter the cave is having them observe a pack of rat dogs dragging a fresh kill into the cave to give them the idea that if other creatures can safely enter so maybe they can as well.

Is this a bad habit that I am forming by creating scenarios that I have to bail out my players or give up the answers too easily? I really don't want to ruin things by having wall breaks and breaking the façade of the story.

advice?
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teaman
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Re: I've either developed a bad habit or my players tend to over complicate things

Post by teaman »

Could you have someone scream "HELP ME!!!!" from inside the cave? Would that get them to rush in?
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GrimlinJoe
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Re: I've either developed a bad habit or my players tend to over complicate things

Post by GrimlinJoe »

There are human remains in the cave that they have to retrieve so that would help.
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Dimirag
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Re: I've either developed a bad habit or my players tend to over complicate things

Post by Dimirag »

It has happened to me a few times while DMing that I set a scene for my players that in my mind seems like a straight forward task but often becomes and impossible objective for them.
Never assume how other players will see something that is presented to them.

You should gauge the interest of the player in the type of game you are presenting them, if they want more strategic situations you can give them that, or use methods that makes them rush into action (if that is not an obvious suicidal action from their POV). Some players will know what kind of situations their GM will create and follow accordingly, others will vary in their response.

In the case of the cave, you can make that another party goes into the cave, give them a few minutes of preparation to see if the party has the idea to combine their strength, if they do not, the party gets the kill.

For other situations, remember than while the party plans, the world keeps turning and events keep occurring, quick thinking and fast action may be the difference between certain doom and a chance of success. Present them once in a while a situation where time can't be wasted.
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Rosisha
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Re: I've either developed a bad habit or my players tend to over complicate things

Post by Rosisha »

I created this really great mansion full of magical traps and defenses. My players burned it down. My fault for making it out of wood.
GrimlinJoe
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Re: I've either developed a bad habit or my players tend to over complicate things

Post by GrimlinJoe »

I see this quite a bit where DMs have put a bunch of planning into a campaign and then the players just do their own thing. I don't want to be a railroad DM but it is sometimes difficult to get my players back to the core of the adventure.
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SmootRK
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Re: I've either developed a bad habit or my players tend to over complicate things

Post by SmootRK »

You could simply have an out of game conversation with players about some general topics, such as what general direction of the game needs to be based upon what you have developed for the players. You can explain that you don't mind going a little bit off-script, if the players can agree to try to follow the general paths you have fleshed out... kinda agree to meet in the middle. Or at least ask the players to help you get them back on the developed paths after straying a bit.

If your players are simply the sorts that are intent on breaking whatever you have developed (and those sort of players DO Exist), then you might need to find some new players.

Like all things in life (as Stephen Covey surmises), it should be win-win or no-deal. The game needs to be enjoyable by all (most of the time)... or basically everyone needs to get something positive out of the game most of time. And that includes the Game Master.

I think you will find most players with any sort of maturity will work with you when you lay it out.
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Dimirag
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Re: I've either developed a bad habit or my players tend to over complicate things

Post by Dimirag »

GrimlinJoe wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 7:38 pm I see this quite a bit where DMs have put a bunch of planning into a campaign and then the players just do their own thing. I don't want to be a railroad DM but it is sometimes difficult to get my players back to the core of the adventure.
Are they the kind of players that enjoy games with set objectives put by the GM? Or do they prefer a sandbox or open world to search for the objectives? Or they like to roam free and have the world react to their doings?

Find what is the group's "north" and start building from there.

Its a matter of what you and them can offer to the other side and what expect from that side in the gaming session.
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Re: I've either developed a bad habit or my players tend to over complicate things

Post by Solomoriah »

It's a cooperative effort. Sometimes you need to remind players of that fact.

And don't plan things too far ahead... you can't possibly predict what your players will do along the way.
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GrimlinJoe
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Re: I've either developed a bad habit or my players tend to over complicate things

Post by GrimlinJoe »

Thank you for the sage advice.

Currently my players are doing the metaphorical equivalent of barricading a door from the wrong side. It is truly interesting to see how their minds work but also puzzling how they arrived at that decision.

If they choose to not hunt the monster they are after than I have other adventure seeds ready to keep them engaged in the story. By no means is this scenario a dead end to the campaign if they decide to get out of dodge.
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