Clerics and Tithing

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Paladin
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Clerics and Tithing

Post by Paladin »

I just had a thought about tithing...

Paladins normally tithe 10% (or more if they choose) of income to the church, but why dont Clerics do the same? They also work for the church and it would make sense that they also contribute part of their income to help the church increase their wealth to maintain their buildings, build new places of worship, and cover the travel costs of sending people around the world to spread the word, etc.

Does anyone have clerics tithe?
Everything was going well until the Anti-Paladin tossed the Halfling overboard in an attempt to distract the Kraken.
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Blorpy
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Re: Clerics and Tithing

Post by Blorpy »

I think it’s just context dependent. I imagine any cleric with a close relationship with their church would likely do various things to help out. And if they are in a town with a different religion, it may be a good idea to help the church out regardless just to keep the peace, as they might not otherwise take kindly to someone practicing an alien religion.
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SmootRK
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Re: Clerics and Tithing

Post by SmootRK »

Paladin wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:40 pm I just had a thought about tithing...

Paladins normally tithe 10% (or more if they choose) of income to the church, but why dont Clerics do the same? They also work for the church and it would make sense that they also contribute part of their income to help the church increase their wealth to maintain their buildings, build new places of worship, and cover the travel costs of sending people around the world to spread the word, etc.

Does anyone have clerics tithe?
I suppose it depends on the religion in question. If it emulates the western Catholic/Christian styles, then it would certainly be normal... or you might even say, everything the cleric "owns" really just belongs to the church itself. The church could require relinquishment of the materials at any point (but they generally allow the priest access and use of those funds for worthy uses including some personal allowances). The church may even "pay" the priest extra for excellent stewardship and growth.

Or if more like the newer Evangelical Church models, the priest/pastor/central figure essentially IS the church. The funds are all his/her to use personally (although much is earmarked to his organization including staffing). These religious organizations often dissolve when the figurehead leaves/dies/whatever.

Other models, such as more tribal sorts of religions, are usually smaller scale. These models often actually pay the priest directly for services/blessings. Priesthood is more like a paid trade/vocation that one takes. One comes in with a tribute, then the 'holy one' performs the blessing/rite. If you watched the Vikings show, think of the blind seer guy.

So what I am saying, is that you can build your campaign religions in any fashion you think is appropriate for you or for your pc's religion that makes sense.

As for Paladins, I have never really imposed the actual 'tithing' thing, though often the players have given freely on their own accord... and I like this better (seems more natural/authentic) than a formulaic deduction of their funds. It becomes a greater function of role-play instead of a rules implementation on their funds.
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Blorpy
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Re: Clerics and Tithing

Post by Blorpy »

I would add that the cleric/paladin historic equivalent of the Knights Templar were often exempted from tithing. During periods of mandatory tithing, it would be the lay people in particular for whom those would be required. In a D&D context that would suggest that other character classes might have a greater obligation than the cleric to pay 10% to the church. Most non-cleric D&D players in my experience tend to default to modern atheism, but if you’re aiming to mimic medieval Europe more closely then you might want to increase the degree to which theocracy affects everyone.

Tithing is indeed a very arbitrary amount, but that part at least would be historically accurate. It is by definition exactly 10% (as written in the Bible), no less, and is indeed particular to western Abrahamic religions (Eastern Orthodox Church never adopted it). Protestants would have had tithing as well, but in general it stopped being mandatory in most countries around the 19th century.

Again, it all comes back to what you want from your game, and how pervasive you feel pseudo-Christianity should be. I personally feel the cleric class is incoherent without something approximating Christianity. In a purely pagan setting I might run druids instead. But it’s all fantasy anyway and comes down to what you and your players find fun. In my own campaign the cleric is a dwarf so I grant him some liberties, since there’s no real historical context there (aside from what medieval people would have thought of dwarves).
daryen
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Re: Clerics and Tithing

Post by daryen »

Blorpy wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:20 am(aside from what medieval people would have thought of dwarves).
"AHHHH!!! It's DIFFERENT!!!! It must die!!!!!"

That would be the most likely thing historical medieval people would have thought of dwarves. (Or elves or orcs or goblins or, really, any human not very similar to those in their area.) That's why we play in a fantasy world that bears as little historical relevance to actual history as possible.

As to the reason for paladins have to tithe and clerics not, I would guess because there is somewhat of an attempt to move clerics at least somewhat away from pseudo-Christianity, where as paladins are very tightly tied to pseudo-Christianity. That would be my primary guess as to "why".
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Blorpy
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Re: Clerics and Tithing

Post by Blorpy »

daryen wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:48 am
Blorpy wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:20 am(aside from what medieval people would have thought of dwarves).
"AHHHH!!! It's DIFFERENT!!!! It must die!!!!!"

That would be the most likely thing historical medieval people would have thought of dwarves. (Or elves or orcs or goblins or, really, any human not very similar to those in their area.) That's why we play in a fantasy world that bears as little historical relevance to actual history as possible.
Ha ha, I don’t treat it that extremely, no. But there are degrees by which one may choose to suspend their disbelief. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing. My players are all demihumans and do get reminded of that fact regularly. Even in Tolkien, where dwarves were somewhat normalized, humans and demihumans still weren’t generally very nice to one another. They might not have always executed each other on sight, but there was little hesitation about throwing strangers in the dungeon. It just makes the world a little more dangerous and complex, which is fun to us.
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Beowulf
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Re: Clerics and Tithing

Post by Beowulf »

In my view Paladins are guardians and servants of the church whereas the Clerics are the church. So I don't see them tithing, but that's just my philosophy.
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MinkyBoodle
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Re: Clerics and Tithing

Post by MinkyBoodle »

Beowulf wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:25 am In my view Paladins are guardians and servants of the church whereas the Clerics are the church. So I don't see them tithing, but that's just my philosophy.
Basically this is my approach, too.
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"If I were you I'd stay away from thoughts like that."
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