Spell Scrolls: Spell Levels

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Dyl
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Spell Scrolls: Spell Levels

Post by Dyl »

I'm not clear on the purpose of the spell scrolls: spell level table in the Scrolls section of Treasure - Core Rules 3rd ed R107, p 138 and related items around the same subject.

Am I right in assuming the table spell scrolls: spell level is used to determine what level of spell can be included on a scroll?
I've read further on to the "Spell Storing" section of Rings, including the tables there. This seems to support my assumption, partially at least.
What about a scroll with multiple spell levels? Have I made a GM decision that removes the need for a table?
I can see the Scrolls table for determining number of spells and basic type (MU /Cleric) on p133.
Then it is down to GM to determine actual spells at that level when a treasure trove is found? I would preroll any found treasure, just to be clear.

Is it reasonable for a Cleric to purchase a specific scroll from his mentor/ temple or other source? This would be specific to the Cleric's needs, not random.
I'm new to this and I've seen a decent level of discussion shunning the idea of buying magical items.
I want to stay withing the rules and I'm still finding my feet.
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Metroknight
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Re: Spell Scrolls: Spell Levels

Post by Metroknight »

For buying magic items, every table is different so that is up the the GM to decide on it. Some let it happen and others don't.

The way I understand about spell levels in scrolls is that each spell (if a multiple spells are on the scroll) could have been written by a different mage or the same mage but at different levels of progress. This means that a spell could have been written by a 3rd level mage and is being casted at that level when read while the same spell on a different scroll could have been written by an 8th level mage which makes the spell have vastly different range, duration, and possibly effects.

For the Cleric purchasing scrolls, that is up to the GM. In my game that does not happen.
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Solomoriah
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Re: Spell Scrolls: Spell Levels

Post by Solomoriah »

No, guys, that table is for randomly rolling spells. You roll on the spell level table first, then on the appropriate spell table for that level at the beginning of the Spells section.

For example, rolls of 32, 13, and 62 would result in spells of 2nd, 1st, and 3rd levels respectively.

The CASTER level of the spells on a scroll isn't actually given in the book. Logically, the spell must be cast at least at the minimum level required to cast the spell (so, 5th level for a 3rd level Magic-User spell) and in general that's what I'd rule. However, it could be argued that a scroll was likely made by one caster who probably did not change levels while creating the scroll, so all the spells on the scroll should be cast at the minimum caster level for the highest level spell on the scroll. This would be 5th level for the scroll described above.
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SmootRK
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Re: Spell Scrolls: Spell Levels

Post by SmootRK »

Yes, like Solo says, for a generic scroll, basically use the spell caster level that allows for the highest level spell on the scroll for all spells (general assumption that one caster created the scroll).

That said, on occasion it might be feasible for tweaking the spell caster level, such as when the GM knows specifically who crafted the scroll. For instance, the adventure is about a wizard tower of certain wizard... of course the scrolls he generally has are crafted at or near his level (ie perhaps some were crafted when he was lower level and he still has them around).

And yes, the tables are for determining which spell levels are contained on each scroll (not necessarily the caster level). Just saying the caster level requires a little logical extrapolation by the GM.
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Dyl
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Re: Spell Scrolls: Spell Levels

Post by Dyl »

Thanks everyone, that's cleared up a lot for me.
I would never have made the link back to the spells lists p15 -16 but now you've said it, Solo, it seems painfully obvious. I'm not sure my brain is wired right, ha ha.
Speaking of which, these responses have helped sharpen up what I thought was happening.
I'd be interested in anyone's thoughts about this...

I totally missed the idea of a 3rd level spell on the scroll requiring a 5th level magic user to read it.
I took the rules about the MU not knowing the spell and suffering 10% failure chance to mean any level MU could try but there would be a good chance of failure as the spell level moved away from the MU level. Adding 10% for each spell level difference and it becomes harder to cast the spell.
For some reason I thought the "magic" was inherent in the written spell and the scroll therefore anyone could read it, just like letting the genie out of the bottle. Any fool can do that but they suffer the consequences of their own wishes.
I can see that this would give a different result than the intended one as the MU of a lower level would be gaining a significant advantage to his casting ability, assuming the spell worked. I'm basing that on the distribution of spell levels on the MU level table, p8 The Character Classes section. I assumed this was just a spot of luck for the MU/ party when such a treasure was found. The spell fades from the scroll as soon as it is read so it wouldn't be a long term advantage, just a lucky break?

Anyway, thanks for posting, everyone. I know what I am doing now.
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Solomoriah
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Re: Spell Scrolls: Spell Levels

Post by Solomoriah »

Dyl wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:15 amI totally missed the idea of a 3rd level spell on the scroll requiring a 5th level magic user to read it.
That's not how it works.

The scroll spell is cast as if it were being cast by whoever created the scroll. Since you can only create scrolls for spells you know, therefore a scroll with Polymorph Other (a 4th level spell) must be cast as if by a 7th or higher level character (as that's how high you have to be to cast the spell itself).

The example in the core rules of Aura the Magic-User (which I now realize is confusing since Aura in BF1 is a cleric... oh, well) should clarify this. What it doesn't say is that the spell is cast at a minimum of 7th level regardless of the level of the reader.

As a rule of thumb the GM will generally assume that a scroll was created by the lowest-level magic-user (or cleric) who could cast all the spells on the scroll. As others have pointed out, the GM may choose a higher level if he or she knows who created the scroll, but in the absence of this information the GM usually takes the easy way out.
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Dyl
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Re: Spell Scrolls: Spell Levels

Post by Dyl »

Solo, thanks.
I've got it now. I wasn't getting it still, clearly, but I'm there now.
Mostly, this is down to how I've read the rules. With the last round of answers I lost track of the Aura example on p137.

So, a magic user creates a scroll with spells up to the maximum spell level his character level will allow.
Said scroll is found by a lower level magic user who can try to use it with penalties for differences in their spell level (not character level, directly) and the level of spell on the scroll, plus a further penalty as MU that doesn't know that spell.
Unless the adventure/ campaign has reason to clarify a specific wizard and his scrolls then it's ok to assume the right level wizard wrote the spells.
Am I right or am I right?
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Solomoriah
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Re: Spell Scrolls: Spell Levels

Post by Solomoriah »

Sounds like it to me, yes.
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Dyl
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Re: Spell Scrolls: Spell Levels

Post by Dyl »

Thanks Solo and thanks for help everyone.
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