Hi, I'm running my group through the classic trilogy, Master of the Desert Nomads (X4, X5, and X10) but we're using Basic Fantasy as the ruleset. The group is getting close to starting X10.
X10, in case you're unfamiliar, is vastly different in approach versus its predecessors or even most other adventures published then and now. It uses 2 different mass combat systems published back in the day, War Machine from the old Companion set, and Battle System which was targeted for use by AD&D and D&D players.
We play online via Maptool. War Machine should be fine to play. It's abstract, just uses competing die rolls to determine an outcome, and I've set up some stuff on an Excel app to update our tokens on Maptool.
Battle System is a different beast entirely. For one, it's at a tactical level. It's a great game and I'd love to use it. But, I'm running into 2 obstacles: 1) Maptool wasn't built to run a game like this; you can't rotate your tokens and 2) I'm pretty sure my players are going to balk at being asked to learn something as detailed and intricate as Battle System on top of everything else going on with War Machine.
So, here's my thinking: why not keep it simple and introduce masses of people, be it a mob, a band of guards, etc, as just a large monster that takes up several spaces on the map, just like the Insect Swarm does? Unlike other monsters, however, the damage it deals would be a function of its current Hit Points, to reflect that more bodies in the mass = more damage it does.
TSR Legacy Product: Battlesystem and Basic Fantasy
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Re: TSR Legacy Product: Battlesystem and Basic Fantasy
Keeping it simple is good, especially if the players are learning a new system. I've always been curious about Battle System, but I never got to try it. I tried War Machine once but didn't care for it too much.
I don't think BFRPG has a mass combat system, but there are a bunch of wargames out there which are pretty good.
I don't think BFRPG has a mass combat system, but there are a bunch of wargames out there which are pretty good.
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Re: TSR Legacy Product: Battlesystem and Basic Fantasy
Here's a rough draft of what I'm coming up with so far. Think of this as a new type of creature, just as 'Dragon' is a classification.
Hordes are at least Large sized (10x10) opponents, and assume about 12 to 16 men contained in a small area. Use a token size double what is normally used for a single opponent of that type. Morale is also used to Rally; the difficulty to Rally is (20 minus ML) which is rolled on a d20 + CHA bonus. Rallying can be done to bring a unit back into a fight, after Morale breaks, or to form a new unit out of a raging mob.
Individual characters (PCs and important NPCs) can embed themselves in a horde, directing its action or they can choose to remain on the field as normal. If embedded, they won't take damage directly until they either leave their horde, their horde is destroyed, or their horde is routed.
Hit Dice: will vary depending on the base type of creature. Multiply a number between 8 and 16 of the base creature's Hit Dice.
Movement is usually at least 5' less per round and as much as half normal, depending on the level of military training.
Damage is automatic (as with Insect Swarms) and is 10% of current Hit Points X 1d4 applied against either all adjacent opponents or up to 3 opponents in range of held weapons. As hordes lose hit points, they deal less damage. (Note, since I'm also using Dungeon Grappling in my game, I'm also throwing in free grapples against all adjacent unembedded opponents.)
Saving Throws: should be done as a typical member of a group, not at the elevated HD level. Any spell effects which would typically paralyze, stun, etc. a single target, should simply remove an appropriate range of Hit Points from the mob. In other words, these non lethal attacks will take out individuals, but typically not the entire group. Spell effects that target an area, however, should work as described. 'Sleep' should be able to knock out an entire mob of peasants. 'Polymorph Other' would only affect 1 individual in the same mob.
Hit Dice: as a rough guide, use 8 X typical HD for a creature. For Large creatures, use 4 X typical HD.
Example:
Peasant Mob
AC: 11
HD: 8
Attacks: Swarm
Dmg: 1d4X10% hp
MV: 20'
No Appearing: 1d3 City
Save As: Normal Man
Morale: 6
Treasure: None
Frost Giant Regulars (note, use a Gargantuan sized token)
AC: 17
HD: 80
Attacks: Swarm
Dmg: 1d4X10% hp
MV: 15'
No Appearing: 1d4
Save As: F10
Morale: 9
Treasure: E + 1d10X1000 gp
As messy as this is, it's a whole lot simpler than trying to teach Battlesystem over Zoom!!
Hordes are at least Large sized (10x10) opponents, and assume about 12 to 16 men contained in a small area. Use a token size double what is normally used for a single opponent of that type. Morale is also used to Rally; the difficulty to Rally is (20 minus ML) which is rolled on a d20 + CHA bonus. Rallying can be done to bring a unit back into a fight, after Morale breaks, or to form a new unit out of a raging mob.
Individual characters (PCs and important NPCs) can embed themselves in a horde, directing its action or they can choose to remain on the field as normal. If embedded, they won't take damage directly until they either leave their horde, their horde is destroyed, or their horde is routed.
Hit Dice: will vary depending on the base type of creature. Multiply a number between 8 and 16 of the base creature's Hit Dice.
Movement is usually at least 5' less per round and as much as half normal, depending on the level of military training.
Damage is automatic (as with Insect Swarms) and is 10% of current Hit Points X 1d4 applied against either all adjacent opponents or up to 3 opponents in range of held weapons. As hordes lose hit points, they deal less damage. (Note, since I'm also using Dungeon Grappling in my game, I'm also throwing in free grapples against all adjacent unembedded opponents.)
Saving Throws: should be done as a typical member of a group, not at the elevated HD level. Any spell effects which would typically paralyze, stun, etc. a single target, should simply remove an appropriate range of Hit Points from the mob. In other words, these non lethal attacks will take out individuals, but typically not the entire group. Spell effects that target an area, however, should work as described. 'Sleep' should be able to knock out an entire mob of peasants. 'Polymorph Other' would only affect 1 individual in the same mob.
Hit Dice: as a rough guide, use 8 X typical HD for a creature. For Large creatures, use 4 X typical HD.
Example:
Peasant Mob
AC: 11
HD: 8
Attacks: Swarm
Dmg: 1d4X10% hp
MV: 20'
No Appearing: 1d3 City
Save As: Normal Man
Morale: 6
Treasure: None
Frost Giant Regulars (note, use a Gargantuan sized token)
AC: 17
HD: 80
Attacks: Swarm
Dmg: 1d4X10% hp
MV: 15'
No Appearing: 1d4
Save As: F10
Morale: 9
Treasure: E + 1d10X1000 gp
As messy as this is, it's a whole lot simpler than trying to teach Battlesystem over Zoom!!
Re: TSR Legacy Product: Battlesystem and Basic Fantasy
Interesting idea. Have you looked into Battlesystem Skirmishes? It's a simplified version of the original Battlesystem. It's available on Divethru RPG and Amazon, although it's a bit pricy at the latter store.
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Re: TSR Legacy Product: Battlesystem and Basic Fantasy
No I haven't seen that simplified version of Battlesystem before. Thanks for the info!
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