Human and Demi-human Monsters

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Elf_Bait
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Human and Demi-human Monsters

Post by Elf_Bait »

As I am familiarizing myself with the rules, I noticed that there doesn't seem to be any sort of monster listings for commonly encountered human and demi-human enemies? Older editions had write-ups for bandits, acolytes, priests, merchants, nobles, and the like but I'm not seeing anything like this in the core monster listings or the various field guides.

I'm assuming, like Alignment, these were left out on purpose (or I'm missing them) but has anyone considered doing a supplement specifically for these sorts of encounters?
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Dimirag
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Re: Human and Demi-human Monsters

Post by Dimirag »

Check the Wilderness Encounters (pg 145) and Creating an NPC Party (pg 148) sections.
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
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Elf_Bait
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Re: Human and Demi-human Monsters

Post by Elf_Bait »

Ah cool. I was looking for individual monster listings in the old fashion of Man, <insert human type>.
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Solomoriah
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Re: Human and Demi-human Monsters

Post by Solomoriah »

Never liked that in the old games, didn't mimic it in mine.
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daryen
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Re: Human and Demi-human Monsters

Post by daryen »

I kinda liked it because, when you get right down to it, we're all just monsters from the Monster Manual. We just happen to appear between "Medusa" and "Merman".
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Solomoriah
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Re: Human and Demi-human Monsters

Post by Solomoriah »

To clarify, I didn't like it because the monster versions didn't work like the character versions, at least not as written.
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Rookie555
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Re: Human and Demi-human Monsters

Post by Rookie555 »

Elf_Bait wrote: Wed Nov 09, 2022 2:38 pm Ah cool. I was looking for individual monster listings in the old fashion of Man, <insert human type>.
I remember thinking about this too even though I have used the sections to make NPC parties regardless. Luckily for a long time I did find this: http://bloodofprokopius.blogspot.com/20 ... x.html?m=1

It'll show you the stats for what was made in B/X from Humans and Demi-humans. I would say if you can convert these stats and refer to the NPC Parties section in BFRPG for the details already provided.
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Ninja Bear
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Re: Human and Demi-human Monsters

Post by Ninja Bear »

Rookiee555 thanks for posting that! I was copying it down by hand from other sources but that just saved time.
Kane
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Re: Human and Demi-human Monsters

Post by Kane »

I always assumed anyone who isn't a classed character, a demihuman or a monster is a Normal Man, with less than 1 HD, 1d6 HP, damage by weapon and AC by armor worn. Basically, all Dervishes, Nobles, etc. suck unless they're Fighters or something (and a lot of OD&D stats treat such characters as Fighters, assuming everyone important is a classed character with multiple levels).

So, as a baseline for dungeon-relevant abilities, NM are inferior to all classes in every way, except for slightly more HP than Wizards and Thieves of first level. I also tend to assume they lack the ability of classed characters - they can't use any weapons or armor effectively except those they've been specifically trained in. This isn't exactly 'realistic', but it's not incredible, either: your average peasant or office worker would get thoroughly annihilated by an MMA fighter or commando, and would require years of training to offer more than luck as a defense. The things classed characters do are hard, and the most advanced Normal Man (like an AD&D Savant) still has a trifling collection of abilities compared to classed characters. In the real world, authority does not = kicking ass, but in D&D it almost has to.

I like this conceit in D&D settings, basically, all Kings are classed or some classed character would destroy them and take over their body or something. Normal people don't stand a chance against monsters and classed characters, beyond sheer luck. The real-life phenomena of fops and morons with incredible power due to social inertia gets short circuited by D&D monsters, magic and class abilities. Higher level characters can completely ruin lower level characters with low level henchmen. So, if you're important, you're tough, or you're dead.

Some NM characters can gain experience and become classed, most cannot. I assume most people lack the talent, drive, inborn ability, and experience to be classed characters. This just follows from the fact that everyone isn't a magic user.

Adding more versatility to human monsters is in tension with classes. If they're not nobody, they're classed. Un-classed people are simply less effective, more limited, and not as important to the world (and classed characters have little intrinsic importance, for that matter).

I don't like extra attacks for Dervishes, either. If a fighter can't do it, why can they? Fighting is abstract, an attack /= a sword swing, so having another sword shouldn't change anything. That kind of stuff is exactly why I don't want unclassed 'monster' humans. If I want dangerous desert nomads I put Fighters on horses, or Thieves if they're the sneaky type.
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