does armor weight count toward carrying capacity?

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Mars
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does armor weight count toward carrying capacity?

Post by Mars »

I tried searching through old posts but didn't find an answer, so I'm asking here in hopes of being enlightened. :) Does the weight of armor count toward a characters total carrying capacity?

Here's the specific circumstances: one of the players in the party wants to use the pre-generated character Apoqulus, from the back of the BF1 book. Apoqulus is a human cleric with 13 (+1) strength. He comes with some basic equipment, including the following:

-mace (10 lbs.)
-sling w/ 40 bullets (4.1 lbs.)
-chainmail armor (40 lbs.)
-7 days rations (14 lbs.)

The carrying capacity section on p.36 says that for a human with 13-15 strength, a light load is up to 65 pounds and a heavy load is up to 165 pounds. Movement rate for a person with metal armor is 20 feet when lightly loaded, and 10 feet when heavily loaded. With just the items mentioned above, Apoqulus is already past 65 pounds and therefore heavily loaded.

So, with pretty standard equipment, it seems like a person wearing metal armor is pretty much already going to be under a heavy load if we count the weight of the armor itself in their total. With that being the case, is the lightly loaded movement rate just there for those occasions when a character might want to dump their pack and run?
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Boggo
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Re: does armor weight count toward carrying capacity?

Post by Boggo »

From page 36 of the Basic Rulebook
Count the weight of armor worn when calculating
encumbrance, because armor counts both for bulk and
restrictiveness as well as for weight. Magic armor counts
for its full weight but is not as bulky and restrictive as
normal armor, thus granting an improved movement rate.
Which is generally why most carry almost everything in a backpack that they drop before combat so they can move a little better in a fight, or to flee it just as you said. Personally I wouldn't be toting a weeks worth of food into a dungeon, which drops weight carried to 54lbs, don't forget coins weigh .1 lb as well ;)
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Metroknight
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Re: does armor weight count toward carrying capacity?

Post by Metroknight »

There are few ways to go. Play as written, ignore the movement speed that is incurred by armor type, or ignore the armor's weight when worn.

I use the ignore the armor's weight when worn as the characters are already impacted by their armor type. According to the carrying capacity chart, as I interpret it, on pg 36 a character is lightly loaded up to the listed weight. This is stated in the first paragraph. That means wearing any armor your movement has been dropped from 40 to 30 or 20, automatically.

I, personally, think that having the weight of the armor be counted along with the speed being reduce by it's type is a form of double dipping into the encumbrance. It's a "oh look you are wearing plate mail so you can move 20' round. Let's count the weight in again and further reduce your speed because it is past your lightly loaded capacity". That is my personal take on it.

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Solomoriah
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Re: does armor weight count toward carrying capacity?

Post by Solomoriah »

Metro, old friend, as written is obviously the best way here.

:D

If you do vary, it's better to ignore the weight of armor than to not use the movement reduction for armor type.
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Solomoriah
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Re: does armor weight count toward carrying capacity?

Post by Solomoriah »

By the way... including the weight of the armor, where plate mail weighs 50 pounds and the average player character has a capacity of 60 for a light load, is a form of "minimum Strength" since at 13 the capacity is 65 pounds, at 16 it's 70, at 18 it's 80. The armor counts for less the stronger you are, and for a first level fighter Strength can mean everything anyway.
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Boggo
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Re: does armor weight count toward carrying capacity?

Post by Boggo »

Honestly to me the weight of coinage is much more annoying and "difficult" but thats a complaint I've had since the late 70's I sometimes houserule coins to more reasonable weights, but mostly just grit my teeth about it, Armour is pretty damn heavy, though according to my SCA friends less encumbering than almost every RPG actually makes it (except Runequest for obvious reasons)
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Solomoriah
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Re: does armor weight count toward carrying capacity?

Post by Solomoriah »

The reduction of movement rate due to restrictiveness is a smoke screen of sorts. I've always had trouble with players who could justify any level of encumbrance and still claim full movement rate; the table given avoids that without me becoming a full-time encumbrance auditor.
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Mars
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Re: does armor weight count toward carrying capacity?

Post by Mars »

Thank you all for the information/perspective. You all make good sense.

Metroknight's suggestion of ignoring armor weight and just using the restrictions from the chart is what I'd been initially wondering about, though I did want to ask for clarification here. I hope to follow the rules as written as closely as I can to start, relying on the wisdom of those who have more experience with the game. This is going to be my first attempt at being GM.

I'll probably make a suggestion like Boggo's, letting the player know they can easily ditch the weight of the food. I want to run the group through the Olde Island Fortress to start, and since it's close to town there isn't really any need to carry a full week's worth of food. I also imagine that its proximity to town will allow the characters to get through it in multiple excursions, so they can retreat whenever they're badly injured, then recuperate and return. Sort of a training-wheels option for their first dungeon.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone for your insight. :)
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Boggo
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Re: does armor weight count toward carrying capacity?

Post by Boggo »

Mars wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:47 pm Thank you all for the information/perspective. You all make good sense.

Metroknight's suggestion of ignoring armor weight and just using the restrictions from the chart is what I'd been initially wondering about, though I did want to ask for clarification here. I hope to follow the rules as written as closely as I can to start, relying on the wisdom of those who have more experience with the game. This is going to be my first attempt at being GM.

I'll probably make a suggestion like Boggo's, letting the player know they can easily ditch the weight of the food. I want to run the group through the Olde Island Fortress to start, and since it's close to town there isn't really any need to carry a full week's worth of food. I also imagine that its proximity to town will allow the characters to get through it in multiple excursions, so they can retreat whenever they're badly injured, then recuperate and return. Sort of a training-wheels option for their first dungeon.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone for your insight. :)
It's a great way to make them consider what they loot as well Hmm since I'm wearing Platemail If I shovel these 200 copper coins in my backpack I'm not going to be able to move! makes the players think about what they nick from the dungeon ;)
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Boggo
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Re: does armor weight count toward carrying capacity?

Post by Boggo »

Solomoriah wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:17 am The reduction of movement rate due to restrictiveness is a smoke screen of sorts. I've always had trouble with players who could justify any level of encumbrance and still claim full movement rate; the table given avoids that without me becoming a full-time encumbrance auditor.
I actually think it works well as a method of adding useable encumbrance without making it excessively book-keepery, though when you add clothes to armour (no-one wears armour without clothing that stuff CHAFES and leaves a lot of things uncovered you'd rather have covered... it does add up (one of the reasons I wanted to adjust clothing item weights in EE

One question though... Do the encumbrance thresholds have to match the STR mod? because if you slightly modify those it will make things slightly easier for the average STR Joe, AND make more actual ability score numbers useful, because atm 13-15 is effectively the same (I haven't put any thought into this it just occurred to me as I was typing)
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