though if you're having the cross reference worded like that technically you don't need the parenthetical name in the Jelly section, but thats more a stylistic choice than anything elseSolomoriah wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:45 pm Okay, so for once you guys are all agreeing with me.
... you're planning something sneaky, I know it!
ANYWAY. This is what I see as the lineup:
Jelly
Jelly, Black (Black Pudding)
Jelly, Glass (Gelatinous Cube)
Jelly, Green (Green Slime)
Jelly, Gray (Gray Ooze)
Jelly, Ochre
I'll add crossreferences for the old names:
Gelatinous Cube
See Jelly, Glass on page X
Goopy Critters
Re: Goopy Critters
No matter where you go...there you are
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Re: Goopy Critters
"Technically" I don't need it, but redundancy serves a purpose here. If the GM finds the monster while looking through the jellies and is not familiar with our names, seeing the traditional name would be helpful. If the GM is looking for the traditional name, then the crossreference is what is seen first.
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Re: Goopy Critters
Agree - new names with cross reference seems like a good solution!coureur_d_bois wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:47 pmAwesome, this looks like a solution that will please everyone!Solomoriah wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:45 pm Okay, so for once you guys are all agreeing with me.
... you're planning something sneaky, I know it!
ANYWAY. This is what I see as the lineup:
Jelly
Jelly, Black (Black Pudding)
Jelly, Glass (Gelatinous Cube)
Jelly, Green (Green Slime)
Jelly, Gray (Gray Ooze)
Jelly, Ochre
I'll add crossreferences for the old names:
Gelatinous Cube
See Jelly, Glass on page X
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Re: Goopy Critters
I'll join the chorus of positive voices on this one.
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Re: Goopy Critters
He's onto us...Solomoriah wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:45 pm Okay, so for once you guys are all agreeing with me.
... you're planning something sneaky, I know it!
Re: Goopy Critters
quick, Unleash the Giraffe Gnolls!toddlyons wrote: ↑Sat Jan 28, 2023 1:10 amHe's onto us...Solomoriah wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:45 pm Okay, so for once you guys are all agreeing with me.
... you're planning something sneaky, I know it!
No matter where you go...there you are
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Re: Goopy Critters
Yes, I think grouping all oozes together is the superior option. When I think of puting a goop in my adventures, I never have a specific one in mind - I choose the one that has the right number of hit dice. Therefore, grouping is more convenient.
And, of course, the cross-referencing fits the mission of BFRPG well - all editions are 100% compatible.
And, of course, the cross-referencing fits the mission of BFRPG well - all editions are 100% compatible.
The biggest fan of Ockham's razor.
Re: Goopy Critters
Wouldn't normally pipe up to express a non-opinion but in this case I think it really doesn't matter. The old names or the new, I would know what was meant. The idea that the old names redirect you to the jellies section works well, I think.
Re: Goopy Critters
I like the Jelly ones except for Glass Jelly. Gelatinous Cube just sounds better to me. Either way it wom’t change much
Re: Goopy Critters
OK, if no one else is going offer a dissenting opinion, here's an argument against grouping them. I don't feel strongly about this, but thought it deserved a counter-argument.
The category is strained. Grouping them into one type is a 2e/3e approach, incongruent with the 1980ish experience. Forcing one category divided by color introduces complexity and confusion.
The category is strained because black puddings and gelatinous cubes move relatively fast and with some kind of intelligence, where gray ooze and green slime hardly move at all. Some are described as willful hunters, while others are hardly more than traps that are more like yellow mold.
Traditionally, as we know, these monsters were ungrouped. 2e had a category called deadly puddings, of which there were four types: black, white, dun, brown. These variants are an intriguing trick to throw at players. 2e has another category called "Ooze/Slime/Jelly" under which fall Ochre Jelly, Gray Ooze, Crystal Ooze, Gelatinous Cube, and Green Slime. 3e stuffs all of them into one ooze category.
Incidentally, ooze is more evocative of something that moves, compared to a jelly, which sounds like something you eat or put on a rash.
If you stuff everything into one category and divide by color, you may have conflicts where two jellies have similar coloring but are different monsters. Ochre is also reddish-brown. The Curse from FG2 would need to be called a reddish-brown jelly. And we have red slime.
If the aim is to create a game that mirrors how people played around 1980, keep them separate.
The category is strained. Grouping them into one type is a 2e/3e approach, incongruent with the 1980ish experience. Forcing one category divided by color introduces complexity and confusion.
The category is strained because black puddings and gelatinous cubes move relatively fast and with some kind of intelligence, where gray ooze and green slime hardly move at all. Some are described as willful hunters, while others are hardly more than traps that are more like yellow mold.
Traditionally, as we know, these monsters were ungrouped. 2e had a category called deadly puddings, of which there were four types: black, white, dun, brown. These variants are an intriguing trick to throw at players. 2e has another category called "Ooze/Slime/Jelly" under which fall Ochre Jelly, Gray Ooze, Crystal Ooze, Gelatinous Cube, and Green Slime. 3e stuffs all of them into one ooze category.
Incidentally, ooze is more evocative of something that moves, compared to a jelly, which sounds like something you eat or put on a rash.
If you stuff everything into one category and divide by color, you may have conflicts where two jellies have similar coloring but are different monsters. Ochre is also reddish-brown. The Curse from FG2 would need to be called a reddish-brown jelly. And we have red slime.
If the aim is to create a game that mirrors how people played around 1980, keep them separate.
I solemnly swear to fulfill the game master's oath to the best of my ability and judgment.
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