Monster Origins

Creating game materials? Monsters, spells, classes, adventures? This is the place!
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Boggo
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Re: Monster Origins

Post by Boggo »

LibraryLass wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:13 pm
Boggo wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:29 pm Tolkien used Ettercap in the Hobbit as an insult Bilbo hurled at the spiders (it basically means roughly dunderhead, it's association with spider creatures is a misunderstanding of that passage of the Hobbit
Tolkien used "Attercop", as Leon recommended. And it is indeed a word for spider, specifically a venomous spider. "Atter" cognate with "adder", "cop" cognate with "cob" as in "cobweb."
Ahh ok, I may be confused as my first reading of the Hobbit was a translation
Cognate to Dutch etterkop (“peevish or ill-natured person”)
Guess which language I first read the Hobbit in :D
Last edited by Boggo on Sat Jan 21, 2023 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Seven
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Re: Monster Origins

Post by Seven »

leon wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:07 pm OK, one more word on the water weird (aside from my note from the other topic about weird being an obsolete noun meaning "spell"). The Shannon Appelcline document says
Water Weird. Though the water weird first appeared in print in the Monster Manual (1977), it was created by Ernie Gygax for the original tournament version of this adventure, in 1976.
Apparently the Water Weird was in the Lost Caverns of Tsojconth, designed for the 76 Metro Detroit Gamers WinterCon V. That eventually became S4, The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth in 82, without the Water Weird.

There is nothing special about the creature, but the name is very... weird.

I use variations of elemental snakes which I call elemental nagas.
I found the idea of having elementals in what is basically a 2 dimensional form appealing.
I think the other elements are actually more interesting.
The air one is basically invisible, the fire one lurks in braseros or fireplaces, etc...
Seven
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Re: Monster Origins

Post by Seven »

There are over 40 000 species of spiders.
Lots of names to choose from, like Giant Wolf Spider.
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Boggo
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Re: Monster Origins

Post by Boggo »

Hmm looks like the Ice Dragon from FG2 will probably need a rename, since there are now Ice Dragons in the Basic rules.

Norkers are as far as I'm aware a creation directly for the Fiend Folio

Orogs seem to be a creation for MM2
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leon
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Re: Monster Origins

Post by leon »

Release 10 covers the rest of the FG1 monsters.

I found 33 monsters that appear in other monster manuals.

Frost Worm: Monster Manual 3E (2000)
Gibbering Mouther: Monster Manual II (1983)
Grick: Monster Manual 3E (2000)
Grimlock: Fiend Folio 1e (1981)
Heucova: Spelled "Huecuva" in Fiend Folio 1e (1981)
Hippocampus: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Kelpie: Fiend Folio 1e (1981)
Homunculus: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Quasit: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Spined Devil: Monster Manual II
Vrock: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Lizard, Shocker: Monster Manual 3E (2000)
Locathah: Blackmoor (Supplement 2) (1975)
Mimic: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Mohrg: Monster Manual 3E (2000)
Ogre Mage: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Otyugh: Neo-Otyugh in Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Phantom Fungus: Monster Manual 3E (2000)
Phase Spider: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Pseudodragon: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Remorhaz: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Roper: The Strategic Review Volume 1, Number 2 (1975)
Sahuagin: Blackmoor (Supplement 2) (1975)
Sea Hag: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Shambler: called Shambling Mound in Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Shield Guardian: Monster Manual 3E (2000)
Crimson Bones: The Shadow Rift (1998)
Stalag: Called a piercer in Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Tendriculos: Monster Manual 3E (2000)
Vampire Spawn: Monster Manual 3E (2000)
Violet Fungus: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Giant Winter Wolf: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Worg: Monster Manual 1e (1977). This one is named parenthetically after "Dire Wolf". Clearly inspired by Wargs from LoTR.

A few of these have different names, and therefore are probably fine as is. See the spreadsheet to see the ones I think are either public domain or original to BFRPG.
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Dimirag
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Re: Monster Origins

Post by Dimirag »

Homunculus is a latin word, its related to alchemy
Kelpies are from Scottish folklore: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelpie
The Crimson Bones is taken from Castlevania's Red Skeleton, so a name change should suffice.
Sorry for any misspelling or writing error, I am not a native English speaker
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Boggo
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Re: Monster Origins

Post by Boggo »

Ogre Magi is just a Japanese mythological Oni renamed to an English (Ok, half English, half Greek) name, we can just revert to Oni with no trouble I would imagine
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LibraryLass
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Re: Monster Origins

Post by LibraryLass »

leon wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 6:02 pm Release 10 covers the rest of the FG1 monsters.

I found 33 monsters that appear in other monster manuals.

Frost Worm: Monster Manual 3E (2000)
Gibbering Mouther: Monster Manual II (1983)
Grick: Monster Manual 3E (2000)
Grimlock: Fiend Folio 1e (1981)
Heucova: Spelled "Huecuva" in Fiend Folio 1e (1981)
Hippocampus: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Kelpie: Fiend Folio 1e (1981)
Homunculus: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Quasit: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Spined Devil: Monster Manual II
Vrock: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Lizard, Shocker: Monster Manual 3E (2000)
Locathah: Blackmoor (Supplement 2) (1975)
Mimic: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Mohrg: Monster Manual 3E (2000)
Ogre Mage: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Otyugh: Neo-Otyugh in Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Phantom Fungus: Monster Manual 3E (2000)
Phase Spider: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Pseudodragon: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Remorhaz: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Roper: The Strategic Review Volume 1, Number 2 (1975)
Sahuagin: Blackmoor (Supplement 2) (1975)
Sea Hag: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Shambler: called Shambling Mound in Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Shield Guardian: Monster Manual 3E (2000)
Crimson Bones: The Shadow Rift (1998)
Stalag: Called a piercer in Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Tendriculos: Monster Manual 3E (2000)
Vampire Spawn: Monster Manual 3E (2000)
Violet Fungus: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Giant Winter Wolf: Monster Manual 1e (1977)
Worg: Monster Manual 1e (1977). This one is named parenthetically after "Dire Wolf". Clearly inspired by Wargs from LoTR.

A few of these have different names, and therefore are probably fine as is. See the spreadsheet to see the ones I think are either public domain or original to BFRPG.
Kelpies are folkloric, and Hippocampi are from Greek mythology; they should be fine. I think the term "Ogre mage" might be original to D&D, but in concept it's always basically just been an Oni so worst case scenario we change it to that. I seem to recall Phase Spiders are derived from Lovecraft's Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath

Grimlocks are an easy reskin to Morlocks, ala The Time Machine. Locathah are likewise easy to genericize into fish-men. Mimics are a D&D original but have disseminated fairly widely into popular culture-- try and find a fantasy-themed video game without 'em!
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leon
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Re: Monster Origins

Post by leon »

Thanks for the feedback.

I call out homunculus because the names and descriptions match between the games. The non-game meaning of homunculus isn't about a miniature servant created by a wizard.

Noted on the Hippocampus and Kelpie. Those two will be updated in the next release.

Crimson Bones is another case where name and description match. Maybe TSR ripped off the concept from Red Skeletons from Castlevania, but the name is different. Nintendo also guards their IP aggressively.

I agree that using Oni instead of Ogre Mage is a viable choice.

I'm confident "phase spider" as a name is unique. I don't immediately see an obvious connection in the text of Lovecraft's Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath.

I'm sure just renaming grimlocks, locathah and mimics fits Solo's approach. I do not think it's enough to appeal to wide use in popular culture. When calling these out, I'm factoring in how black pudding has already changed to black jelly.

Regarding grimlocks specifically, how about calling them dreadlocks? :lol:
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Solomoriah
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Re: Monster Origins

Post by Solomoriah »

leon wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:12 pm Regarding grimlocks specifically, how about calling them dreadlocks? :lol:
Um... no. That wouldn't be bad, that would be very bad.

Morlock is quite good enough actually. Copyright expired long ago.
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