Question About Magic Items

[MJLauck]

Let me preface this by saying I am just returning to roleplaying games after a lay off of about 25 years AND by fantasy experience is rather limited (the “big one” and some Warhammer Fantasy Role Play when it first came out)… more of a science fiction and superhero guy back in the day. So if I am missing some terribly obvious answer please be kind!

How do you handle the discovery of magic items? I know the rules mention command words which may have to be discovered and common (and obvious) activations such as swinging a sword or drinking a potion but that is not really what I mean. I mean do you assume that characters automatically recognize magic and, if so, how and to what extent? Yes, there are times when it is and should be obvious (“And then a shining arm extended from the water holding an elegant and beautifully forged blade…”). But there are other times I wonder. So if your character party found itself in the cairn of some long-forgotten high king and there sits the ancient, dried husk of said king with a finely wrought blade clutched in either hand, identically jeweled but only one was magic is there something in the rules which covers knowing which of the two is magic or recognizing there is magic present at all? Is there any sense, either learned or innate, of magic? In a non-magic sword example, what if the comely bar maid at the local tavern slips one of your character party a tankard of ale laced with a potion of delusion. Assuming any throws against the charisma of the poisoner have failed, is there a rule that states a magic user or an elf (for example) would sense the mug is full of magic and not the Middlearth Light they ordered? I, in fact, did not pick the delusion potion at random as it mentioned “if tested or analyzed” it will appear to be another potion. Am I missing rules for testing and analyzing somewhere (although, you know, I say test it by making the halfling drink it…)?

So, do clerics or magic users get trained to recognize magic? What about elves or dwarves? Do they have some innate ability to sense, if not necessarily understand, magic? Or do barbarian types have some primitive inborn fear of magic?

[Boggo]

the Identify Magic spell is how to figure out if an item is magical or not, figuring out what it does, I make them make a research ability roll. or a praying for divine inspiration ability roll (either and INT or WIS ability roll, depending on how they are researching, or praying) once they know it IS magic. (they currently take it to the Village Elder where they are staying and pay him to research the items they've found (He's a magic user)) though once they know a weapon is magical they just use it, sooner or later they will figure out the plus by when they hit and miss (so far the longest it's taken them is 2 combats)

as to this

So, do clerics or magic users get trained to recognize magic? What about elves or dwarves? Do they have some innate ability to sense, if not necessarily understand, magic? Or do barbarian types have some primitive inborn fear of magic?

thats up to you, my Barbarians are just tribally primitive they have no restrictions or benefits, Elves and Dwarves already have heaps of advantages, I don't see they need more, Clerics and MU's tend to have the better INT and WIS so are better at the researching/praying method I do, so there is their advantage

[MJLauck]

So then, other than casting the Detect Magic spell, you would take the position there is nothing to separate a potion from some other strange liquid? Or in a chest of fine jewelry as long as none of the rings have “this one rules them all” inscribed inside there is no way to tell it is magic without wearing it?

And when it comes to potions (which I think are kind of unique among magic items since they are consumed) do you allow certain potions have certain smells/tastes? Is this invisibility potion pretty much the same as that invisibility potion? If a PC has consumed a specific potion in the past might they recognize that potion by smell/appearance?

[Dimirag]

So, do clerics or magic users get trained to recognize magic? What about elves or dwarves? Do they have some innate ability to sense, if not necessarily understand, magic? Or do barbarian types have some primitive inborn fear of magic?

Cleric and Magic Users can cast detect magic, MUs can analyze magic with the optional spell.
Other than that, there is no special hard rule for it, but, if you judge that magic items must be of exquisite and high quality then dwarves could "suspect" from metalworkings, fighters could gauge masterwork weapons, elves, dwarves, and MUs could suspect if special engravings/runes/sigils are used, clerics could suspect if religious symbols are present, thieves could look at the use of precious metals and gems....

Its a matter of how you present those items and what knowledge the class/race could have with it.

But none will know for sure until discovered by trial or magic

[Boggo]

So then, other than casting the Detect Magic spell, you would take the position there is nothing to separate a potion from some other strange liquid? Or in a chest of fine jewelry as long as none of the rings have “this one rules them all” inscribed inside there is no way to tell it is magic without wearing it?

And when it comes to potions (which I think are kind of unique among magic items since they are consumed) do you allow certain potions have certain smells/tastes? Is this invisibility potion pretty much the same as that invisibility potion? If a PC has consumed a specific potion in the past might they recognize that potion by smell/appearance?

Yup, without detect magic or trial and error they don't know, though most of my magic items are more finely made, some are deliberately not, and roughly poorly made, just to make the players think more.

Potions I tend to have all potions of a particular sort be the same colour, with the same odour and taste, so once the party knows that they can identify others of the same sort, though they still have to research or trial and error the first one they find to figure out what it's a potion of.

[Dimirag]

So then, other than casting the Detect Magic spell, you would take the position there is nothing to separate a potion from some other strange liquid?

Labeled potions is not unheard of, otherwise the creator and user would have to memorize every potion by look, smell, bottle, etc.
Note that mislabeling a potion is something that an evil creator (or a clumsy one) could totally do.

Or in a chest of fine jewelry as long as none of the rings have “this one rules them all” inscribed inside there is no way to tell it is magic without wearing it?

Unless following what I've said above, putting treasure without proper identification is a professional hazard.

And when it comes to potions (which I think are kind of unique among magic items since they are consumed) do you allow certain potions have certain smells/tastes? Is this invisibility potion pretty much the same as that invisibility potion? If a PC has consumed a specific potion in the past might they recognize that potion by smell/appearance?

I would let them remember, but maybe involve a roll of some kind, unless the potion has a very very characteristic scent or taste characters could totally forgot about them, specially if its a potion they drank many moons ago.
So I would allowed it if the player keeps a record of it.

[Solomoriah]

Wizards often write command words in invisible script on an item in my games. Elf-made items may have the words hidden in Elvish in intricate carvings.

[Boggo]

about the closest I get to that is if it's a magic item a desperate party needs, or one that is plot important, there might be a hint found nearby, otherwise it's library time!!!

[MJLauck]

Thanks for the replies. I just wanted to make sure I was not missing some obvious mechanism (I really expected someone to hit me with something like “it says dwarves can detect magic just like they can inclined floors and new construction” or “check page 42”). If I ever go back to GM’ing (my schedule is horrible) I think I am tempted to put a little more intuition into magic… I always kind of took Detect Magic, for example, to be a spell for when one finds themself in the treasure vaults of Lord Whoever and one feels there is magic somewhere… but what to swipe? Or to pull out an odd movie reference, if you are familiar with The Octagon there is a point in the film where Chuck Norris walks into a dark room and realizes (as revealed by a hoarsely whispered voiceover) “Ninjas! There are ninjas here!” It seems reasonable to me a magic user, or magic attuned race, would sense magic being present, even if they can not pinpoint exactly what/where it is… so Detect Magic would indicate it is that specific item or shrouded door or assassin in the corner with an invisibility spell on him.

[Mars]

Elf-made items may have the words hidden in Elvish in intricate carvings.

This is a pretty cool way of having the option to discover the magic by studying the object, without having to rely on a spell. Using this approach, a person could come up with all kinds of interesting details that could guide the player toward discovery.