Unarmed Combat Variant

[MJLauck]

I would like to invite everyone interested to play test the following additions to “wrestling rules.” I realize the combat rules are meant to be fairly light compared to something like a wargame, but I personally find wrestling which is restricted to essentially grabbing opponents a bit unrealistic and limiting (especially after decades of studying practical, real world Chinese martial arts with a particular interest in grappling). I am not suggesting completely rewriting things so characters can tear through dungeons like Bruce Lee at the end of Enter The Dragon! Instead, I offer a tweak to the current rules to add a few more options for unarmed combat while keeping things fast and fun.

The first thing I would suggest is a change to the current rules which state a wrestling attack (which appears to be limited more or less to seizing your opponent) is handled as any other melee attack. I think this is reasonable but suggest the following refinement: when attempting a wrestling attack against any opponent wearing armor, the armor is ignored when determining the opponent’s armor class. This means for most playable races the wrestling attack is made against an AC 11 +/- Dexterity bonus. Why? Well, to my way of thinking, adding pounds of armor does not make you harder to hit but harder to hurt. The improved AC brought about by chain mail or plate mail does not reflect the wearer is less likely to be hit but less likely to be harmed. Honestly, armor probably makes one more susceptible to being struck! I would also suggest if the attacked character is wearing chainmail actually it lowers the AC by 1 (to AC 10 for most characters) and platemail lowers AC by 2 (to AC 9 for most) against wrestling attacks. Similarly I would suggest the +1 to AC from shields be ignored when it comes to wrestling because the shield could become a lever used against its wearer just as easily as a defense against grabs. Magic bonuses to AC I will leave to individual game masters to sort out!

The second change I would suggest is an expansion of wrestling attacks to include throws. While seizing your opponent to immobilize them or force them to move in the direction you want while continuing to hold them is useful, so is moving them out of your way without remaining entangled with them. I suggest when a character attempts a throw it is treated as a wrestling attack (including the changes in figuring AC mentioned above if you choose to use them). If the attack roll is successful then I propose the target’s save against death ray roll is made immediately. If this saving roll is successful the victim is not thrown but the attacker has seized them as per current wrestling rules (and will require the victim to make another saving roll against death rays to escape as per current wrestling rules). If the saving roll is missed then the victim is thrown. They are knocked to the ground in either a prone (face down) or supine (face up) position. To simply determine how a thrown character lands I would suggest a roll of any standard die with an odd result indicating prone and even indicating supine followed by a 1d12 to indicate where the throwee lands in relation to the thrower. Imagine the thrower is the center of an imaginary clock face and the number rolled indicates the clock position where the throwee hits the ground. So when Gor the fighter successfully throws his orc opponent, a d6 roll of 3 indicates the orc lands prone and another 3 rolled on a d12 indicates the orc lands to the right of Gor.

If you wish to add a further bit of realism and complexity to unarmed combat in your game, I suggest adding not one but three types of throws: throws to move opponents, throws to control opponents and throws to injure opponents. The attacker must declare which of the three they are attempting. If their attack is successful, the victim immediately rolls against death ray as described above (ie if the roll is successful they are held but not thrown). If the throw is successful then the result will depend on the type of throw which was attempted. A throw to move will result in the victim landing either prone or supine on the ground to be determined by a d12 roll (alternately you can allow the thrower to ‘call’ the direction the victim is thrown). A throw to control will result in the victim remaining in the same space as the thrower, but on the ground AND still being held by the thrower. This keeps a victim from effectively being able to defend themself and still needing to make a roll against death ray on their next action to get free (and get up). Finally, a throw to damage hurts the opponent. At minimum, this should be 1d6 (as per the rules for falling) plus any damage bonus from the thrower’s Strength.

A couple more suggestions to try based on my real world experiences in martial arts. Normally Strength bonuses apply to melee attacks and Dexterity bonuses apply to missile attacks. I can honestly see reasons why both should apply to throws because a throw can be a simple, brutal attack of strength (one pro wrestler picks another bodily up, off the ground and slams him down) or a graceful move to steal your opponent’s balance (like when an 80 year old tai chi practitioner puts on attacker on the ground). I propose using whichever bonus is greater on the attempt to throw and, if throwing for damage, adding the bonus there as well. If you are using weapon specialization rules and want to offer characters the chance to specialize in grappling then perhaps combine Dexterity and Strength bonuses!

Realistically, throws can be used to completely immobilize (or kill) opponents, even armored opponents. Throws can result in the victims dislocating shoulders or hips and breaking bones, including backs and necks. In fact, there are moves in Chinese martial arts specifically designed for use against an armored opponent which uses their armor against them. For example, throws to place armored opponents on their head in such a way their helmet breaks their neck at the base of the skull. It turns out practical violence is pretty darn violent! However, in the interest of game balance I am suggesting limiting damage to 1d6 plus Strength/Dexterity bonus, at least while play testing these suggestions, with the possible exception of natural 20 “critical rolls.” I would also like to suggest limiting to throws to fighters, thieves and perhaps clerics of certain deities. Finally, throws should only be usable against more or less humanoid opponents up to about 150% the size of the character attempting the throw.

I do think there may be a few more tweaks to unarmed combat but I think this is plenty to play with for now. I look forward to everyone’s input and thank you for reading my ideas.

[Solomoriah]

MJLauck, if you would do us the favor of rewriting this into a coherent rule supplement, we'll publish it as such. Just rewrite the text to remove things like "The first thing I would suggest..." and instead present your changes as actual rules; feel free to copy any of the existing rules text that might be needed to "flesh out" your rules. We'll deal with converting it into an actual supplement.

Having martial arts/wrestling as a proper supplement is absolutely the right way to do it. That way it remains optional, and can be made a bit more detailed since not everyone is expected to use it.

[toddlyons]

You can download the supplement template from this post.

[MJLauck]

Okay, I guess I wasn’t thinking this was quite that far along yet but I will try to get this into the proper format sometime today. Otherwise it may be a bit!

[toddlyons]

Okay, I guess I wasn’t thinking this was quite that far along yet but I will try to get this into the proper format sometime today. Otherwise it may be a bit!

Some supplements are only a page or two. You can always expand and refine it over time. But once you've made it into a supplement, people here can test it and provide feedback. Just keep attaching new document revisions to your first post. (And probably update the first post to delete the text you've moved to the supplement.)

[MJLauck]

Thanks for the link.

I forgot you guys do everything in OpenOffice! I get it; I just travel with an iPad though. Looks like it is time to set up a Portable Apps drive so I can use the work laptop to whip this into shape while I am on the road this week.

[toddlyons]

I forgot you guys do everything in OpenOffice!

LibreOffice, actually. OpenOffice hasn't been actively developed since 2011, shortly after Oracle took it over. But yeah, because we're an open source project it's very important to release the books and supplements an open file format.

I'm glad you're open to doing this. We love seeing new contributors getting involved with the project.

[MJLauck]

I am old and .ott is still OpenOffice in my head. Pretty sure I can access LibreOffice with a PortableApps set up, too.

I just hope I can offer something worthwhile.

[toddlyons]

I am old and .ott is still OpenOffice in my head. Pretty sure I can access LibreOffice with a PortableApps set up, too.

I'm 53 and understand completely. I can't believe it's been so long since the developers forked the code into L.O.

Also: I love PortableApps, too. Such a great toolkit: https://portableapps.com/apps/office/li ... e_portable

I just hope I can offer something worthwhile.

Never doubt yourself. If it's something you find useful, you won't be the only one... and over time a lot of people will be grateful that you decided to share what you created with the world.

[LleijS]

I appreciate your work and greatly look forward to what comes out of this thread. Your suggestions, particularly concerning AC, remind me of how it is handled in the 'Encyclopedia' version of 'that game', which may be worth perusing for inspiration if you have a copy of those rules.

Personally, I'd suggest that throws be limited to Fighters. What is the definition of a 'fighter' but someone who has martial training? I could see the case for Clerics of certain orders, but Thieves were too busy learning how to be thieves to study unarmed martial arts. In fact, I would go as far as to only allow Fighters to apply their STR and DEX bonuses to the roll; while everyone may have an instinctual ability to grapple, without training on how to exploit leverage, etc., one's ability to take advantage of openings and such is extremely limited. Again, just my opinion.